Answer this Ada Supportersgreenspun.com : LUSENET : 1998 Guam Elections : One Thread
Do you really think the people of Guam will elect a person who did so poorly in a debate that it draws questions regarding HIS ability to govern and lead this island?
Ada's election in 86 and 90 are not as extraordinary as Mr. Cruz leads us to believe. One against a man just indicted - and another against a caucasion woman - a win for her would have broken two enormous obstacles present just because of who she is - a caucasiono and a woman.
Too bad for you guys - Carl's shakiness is not enough to overcome the rediculous and embarassing performance by Joe. To perform so poorly in a debate has direct implications in how he can handle situations as the leader of our government. To be Governor - you are going to be in pressure sitautions way more important than a debate. To communicate effectively is a given for a politician, let alone the Governor. Joe Ada will not win this election - but you guys can continue to cry all you want about Carl. And do so for another four years.
-- Why Joe will lose (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 16, 1998
Yes I agree with the opinion that Joe Ada's 'honesty and integrity' approach towards winning the governorship will not be effective this time. Joe Ada used that political approach 'honesty and integrity' against Ricky Bordallo going through a trial and killed daily by PDN and the Guam Cable News. Moreover, Joe Ada is not a ghost, his record of 8 years as Governor does not contain any significant accomplishment during Guam's most viable economic opportunity times that indicates he will not perform any better in the future. It is my humble opinion Joe Ada's lack of performance during the Hilton debate is the turning point of this election and independent people maybe convinced that Guam may not be able to survive four more years of Joe Ada's brand of leadership.
-- (email@example.com), October 16, 1998.
The only things that came out of Joe Ada during the debate were Tom Ada and Angel Santos. He is the proverbial political puppet for those standing behind the scenes.
Joe Ada's poor performance indicates that he would not be able to represent Guam in this region let alone negotiate with the U.S..
Many Ada supporters are flooding the radio waves with explanations of why Ada did so poorly. There is no need. We already know that he is not capable to be governor.
It is too bad. The people of Guam were looking for a tight race and it looks like there will be none.
People can talk about Gutierrez's corruption all they want, however, until it is proven in court they are non sequitur to this race.
-- laus Deo (lausDeo@rocket.com), October 16, 1998.
Are you going to respond? I undestand your hatred for Carl - but tell us why we should vote for Joe - or are you stuck with the idea of voting against Carl?
Hope to hear from you soon.
-- Why Joe will lose (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 1998.
Oh - sorry lighthouse - I just read your post regarding your intention to vote for Joe "no matter what." Now that we finally have your agenda - we can talk freely. I almost had a feeling that you were somehow "neutral" in this debate recently. Anyway -
You speak of Ada's speaking in the debate as some "old-fashioned" way? - Now - you are really trying to fight your way out of a jam ...aren't you? He could not even finish a sentence ! - How the hell are you going to support such behavior? Please - Please explain! I hope I am not making any libelous statements - cause you seem to rely on that excuse anytime someone wants to state things contrary to your beliefs. But please - respond - you really think Joe is fit to be Governor - now that you have acknowleged your intentions? - sheesh - Carl must have really slammed you so good to support someone so blindly.
-- Why Joe will lose (email@example.com), October 17, 1998.
You really hit it on the money. The lighthouse sounds like a a flute, not bright with a lack of respect for a lot of people in the 98 camp.
-- (Go@kuentos.com), October 17, 1998.
Just because ADA wasn't focused doesn't mean that it has a total bearing on being governor. You 98'ers seem to have a show-off and a "think you know it all" type of attitude. You people again are so materialistic when it comes to this whole election. Oh, I want to look good, that's why I'm voting for Carl is pure bull. Look around you, you know that Carl's corrupt, yet you're still voting for him. Is this the same crowd, who is against corruption, the same kind that screwed the Philippines over. Carl T.C. Gutierrez as the Chairman of Ways and Means already screwed Guam over millions of dollars, in addition to creating a deficit that even up to decades from now, the children of Guam will be paying for. And you 98'ers, don't give me this bullshit that it was Joe ADA again for the deficit, ONLY THE LEGISLATURE CAN APPROPRIATE MONEY. In addition, the same influential legislatures, the 21st/22nd of which terms occured during the ADA administration, was spearheaded with the financial irresponsibility of the man who approved their super-expensive budgets, Carl T.C. Gutierrez. YOU 98'ERS HAVE YOUR HEAD SO FAR UP CARL T.C. GUTIERREZ THAT I MYSELF ALONG WITH THE OTHER PEOPLE ON GUAM WHO HAVE THEIR HEAD STRAIGHT CAN'T TELL WHERE YOU BEGIN AND HE ENDS.
-- Frank Cruz (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 1998.
Why do you enjoy talking about the the rear part of the human body. Is it because you and Joe Ada are going to end up in the rear come November? There are children that enter the forum so please clean up your postings. Refrain from talking about heads up in X. As a supporter of the mauleg way you should act better or give it up. The whole world is watching. Thank You
-- (Rear@kuentos.com), October 17, 1998.
Mr. Why Joe,
Thank you for your concern about whether I'd respond. Before assuming I won't respond, give me at least a day. I'm not on this forum all day long. I will respond to any questions directed toward me.
You state: "I undestand your hatred for Carl - but tell us why we should vote for Joe - or are you stuck with the idea of voting against Carl?"
I'm glad you understand my hatred for Karl. At last, we have made a connection. But yes, I am sticking with my idea of voting against Karl, unless someone can give me good reasons to do otherwise. So far, I have seen not ONE good reason to vote for Karl.
I don't need any reasons for voting for Joe but these: He is not Karl. He does not seem korrupt. He is the only alternative to Korrupt Karl.
I don't know why you were under the impression that I was "neutral". I have given every indication in this forum that I am against the korruption and manipulation in Karl's administration. I am not completely one-sided however. I can see problems with Ada, but those are miniscule compared to Karl's flaws.
You state: "I just read your post regarding your intention to vote for Joe "no matter what."
This is a complete misrepresentation of what I wrote. I wrote that because Joe seems honest, and he is not Karl, I will vote for him "no matter how unslick he is."
As for the main point of this thread, that Joe was not good in the last debate and therefore is an ineffective communicator and will not be a good governor. I disagree. If I may:
* Joe obviously did not do well in the last debate. He got flustered with his opening speech (seemed to lose his place) and took a long time to recover. Everyone knew he was not good in debates even before the SPJ debate.
* Your assumption -- that someone who cannot communicate well in a debate must therefore not communicate well as governor -- is very flawed. Governors do not communicate in debates as part of their daily duties. They communicate, for the most part, by sitting down with one person or a few people and talking for a long time. They do not have to stand up on a podium and address a large crowd to be effective. Joe is better in close, longer communicating -- better at it than Karl -- and this is what matters when you are a governor. Communicating with the media is the spokesperson's job, and Joe did a better job in choosing Mark Forbes to do that than Karl did in choosing Patrick McMurry and Ginger Cruz.
* Communicating is just one part of being a governor. Other parts include making wise decisions and having integrity. I'll take Joe over Karl on these points.
Thank you for inviting my response. I'm sorry I had to shoot holes in your arguments.
-- Lighthouse (email@example.com), October 17, 1998.
How easy it is to change courses once your horse stumbles. When Angel won the debate in the primary - all of you ABC's were jumping up and down. Now that Ada stumbles - Lighthouse somehow has come up with the notion that the debate has little bearing on how someone will perform as Governor?
Poking holes in my argument - lighthouse claims. Not even close. Your BS about close communication and speaking to the media misses every point I made. If Joe cannot speak to the people of Guam directly - as a person telling us why he should be elected - then how can he be our leader? Being Governor is not about sitting in a room with a couple of people. It is about LEADERSHIP. Joe's ability to speak is not what I am writing about - I am writing about Joe's ineffective communication AND the total lack of substance in everything he said in the debate. It was a performance this island has never seen. Bottom line - THE PEOPLE are not going to follow your reasoning this election, Lighthouse. Other than the similarity of voting for Karl because it is a vote against Joe Ada. I suggest you and Mr. Cruz begin preparing your post-election statements on why the voters are not as brilliant as you all - Joe will lose. Don't cry ok?
-- Why joe wil lose (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 1998.
Lighthouse and you Mualeg Mohons
We all know that the ability to effecitvely communicate is an important prerequisite to the position of Governor. If Joe Ada can't communicate effectively then how can he do any job effectively. I feel sorry for Joe Ada but gee do not let Guam 'go down the drain'. Afterall, he did not 'see any sunshine just sunset for the past four years'. The so call 'honesty and integrity' is in the drain because I tell you there were lots of silent blank communication during the debate. Lets get real 'the truth hurts'.
-- (Talk@kuentos.com), October 17, 1998.
Ron Tangye wrote most of Joe Ada's stuff, and he didn't turn in the speech till five minutes before the debate began.
Would you rather listen to Carl's well-spoken LIES or Joe Ada's accent?
Carl, you know you didn't end load shedding, or build schools. No shame. You take ALL the credit, you're even out there drilling holes and "saving lives" at the KAL crash. How embarrasing. People are dying and you have the NERVE to show up in your little 98 shirt and hat with your little photographer and your little kronies passing out your biography sheets.
In the debate Carl twisted a question around several times. ONce was about ethics. Instead of talking about his ethics, he gave us that krap about the tapes. Another time was when a reporter asked "What was the biggest mistake in your administration?" Slick Carl twisted it around so he responded to what he thought were Joe Ada's biggest mistakes.
"Oh I can answer, Joe Ada made a lot of mistakes," is what he said.
I'll tell you the difference between Joe and Carl. Carl thinks he's God, Joe is humble and sincere.
-- (email@example.com), October 17, 1998.
True, now I remember what that question was. It was asked by Joy Lepola, "A GUTIERREZ CRONIE." The exact question was "What mistake do you regret making during your administration." The question is towards whomever it's asked, in this case it was first to Joe. Then the question was to be asked to Carl, the same way it was asked. Carl being so slick turned around and answered the question as if referrred to Joe and Joe only. What kind of man would do that? Only a man who thinks HE'S STILL THE ONE, WHEN HE'S JUST A CROOK TAKING THE PEOPLE OF GUAM FOR A RIDE. 98'ers, you are ruining your future voting for Carl, I hope that one day you realize that he has really put his interests above your own...
-- Frank Cruz (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 17, 1998.
Dear Mueleg Mohons
If Joe Ada received his speech 5 mts. prior to the debate then it reveals to Guam a very unorganized and sloopy worker person that is not fit for any job. If he was working for any organization and he debated like that, he would have been fired on the spot.
Yes Frank Kruz you can make up all the dump excuses its over the independent people know that they perfer a smart Carl over speechless Joe anytime of the day. The debate will forever be remembered as the mugleg way.
-- (Guam@kuentos.com), October 17, 1998.
Hmmmm.... Joe Ada received his speech from Ron Tangye five minutes before the debate huh ??? So does that mean, since Mark Forbes doesn't want to be governor, that if we elect Joe, Ron Tangye will be governor for four years???
-- Spotlight (email@example.com), October 18, 1998.
You apparently have no idea how government works. The most Ron Tangye is going to do is deal with the media on behalf of Ada. That has nothing to do with governing. Neither does debating. As lighthouse said, the governor does most of his communicating on a more personal level and Ada is far more effective than Karl at that.
-- RTT (Ratt@tat.tat), October 18, 1998.
Why don't you explain why Joe Ada can't debate to the voters? You have insulted the voters... do you really think that the independent voters are dump? I tell you, that that after the debate the voters have a clear understand of the reason why Joe could not plan!
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 18, 1998.
The Ada camp's ad in today's PDN is PATHETIC. The problem during the debate was NOT Joe Ada's accent it was his inability to answer the questions posed to him.
-- Eloise (Elfin9@yahoo.com), October 18, 1998.
I pray that the two pages at PDN will take care of the debating shocking damage to Joe Ada's quest for integrity the mugleg way. Joe, in order to obtain integrity you must first gain respect.
-- (email@example.com), October 19, 1998.
I didn't say anyone was dumb. I said that a debate wasn't the best forum for Ada to communicate his ideas. If you have concerns about his ability to communicate why don't you try talking to him. That's the way it normally happens on the job.
-- RTT (Ratt@tat.tat), October 19, 1998.
Joe Ada has the right understanding of all the things and the vast complexity of ordinating conditions within the mind. This is call the 'Mugleg Way' as beamed by the lighthouse.
-- (Right@kuentos.com), October 20, 1998.
Vote for Joe F Ada for abandonment, failure and planning feasance the master of mauleg morons.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 21, 1998.
Vote 98 for greed,corruption,crony capitolism,pay offs,nepotism, and free ice keki for all the chilgrens!
-- (email@example.com), October 21, 1998.
Attention voter's of GUAM:
For Tax rebates, 54-40, legacy of debts, EXCELLENT communication skills (of course with an accent). and the possibility of Load Shedding together with POOR planning and NO foresight for the economic welfare of our Island : VOTE Joe ADA for Governor
We all know we have enough WHITE SANDY BEACHIZ ...But then again, we do need to "EXCUSE" him for his "ACCENT".... If local people still have a hard time understanding him, what more the world.
For a team with VISION, great communication skills (with or without a "SPIN"), a REDUCED deficit, NO Load Shedding, FORESIGHT for the economic welfare of our Island, and a man who can lead guam into the next millennium : VOTE Carl Gutierrez
-- 98 is the MAULEG THING TO DO (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 22, 1998.
Last time I saw you was during a debate on TV. Why is it that they say you continue to hide and not face the people of Guam? I think they are correct you need to be more open the general public instead of staying within the comforts and protection of your supporters. You need to be able to go in front of the TV and defend yourself because it seems you continue to avoid the issues and look like a scared man. The voters sense this and seems convinced that you can't handle the job you want. At the least start talking on your TV commercials we need to hear your voice and know you are real.
-- (email@example.com), October 23, 1998.
If Joe Ada was a new candidate that was running for governor then i think that the question of his ability to communicate well should be a major issue. But, being that he was governor for 8 years I think that this issue is a dead one other wise explain how he won both times (The first time he won Ricky wasn't indicted till after the election so don't use that in your arguement). I think we should talk about ethics. Does Carl have any ethics? I think we should compare both candidates ethics. Carl isn't indicted yet but it sure sounds like another Ricky story. Can you 98 supporters defend carl's ethics?
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
To the idiot above (stillmauleg)
the ONLY reason why Joe ADA was seated for another 4 years was not because of his GREAT communication skills, but because he gave every taxpayer who filed on guam FREE MONEY and let's not leave out the $5,440.00 raise to government employees. During that weeks prior to the election, there was rumors, and public acknowledgement of the fact that he (ADA) was considering giving REBATES, (for the sole reason of getting re-elected)..and don't even try to think of another reason for him giving people raises and rebates, sure the economy was good, THEN, but look what it (giving rebates) has done, our deficit was at an all time high, the government had to borrow from peter to pay paul,....But thank god the sun started to shine, that's right, it was the current administration that brought the deficit down..
Now come November 3rd, do the right thing and vote 98, because YOU'RE STILL THE ONE....
-- other than ada (not the mauleg thing to email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
Hey, you sound like Karl, or someone that writes for him.
-- johnny bravo cruze (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 26, 1998.
Carl is a megalomaniac and thinks he can get away with everything. He has another thing coming to him. I'm voting for Joe because atleast he is a down to earth guy. I'll be at the courtroom when carl gets caught and I'll have my bag of rotten tomatoes.
-- (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
When I finished my post I got this nice little message:
sent a note to firstname.lastname@example.org
Maybe it was Karl who wrote that message. In any event, the governor is listening/watching. We have his attention.
Karl - stop the corruption and the nepotism. Do what is right for Guam and drop out of the race. Si Yu`use Ma`ase
-- (email@example.com), October 26, 1998.
I've noticed that MOST pro-98 posts here on this forum are just insults and profane langauge, not really addressing issues, attacking more intelligent posters, and one or two line garbage. Hardly none of the questions that deserve some kind of rational response get a rational explanation. Does it seem to reflect the mentality of 98? You 98ers seem to get off on insulting Joe just because he is a cool guy, be cool people. Guess shameless self promotion fits the style better? Can anybody give me convincing FACTS that would persuade me to vote for karl? Make your argument sensible PLEASE.
-- johnny bravo cruze (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.
98'ers, you think Joe AdA concocted the 5440 and tax rebates, THINK AGAIN. These same monetary appropriations that Carl claims caused a deficit WERE AUTHORED AND CREATED BY NONE OTHER THAN THE FORMER CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS UNDER THE ADA ADMINISTRATION, CARL T.C. GUTIERREZ. Why don't you 98'ers go to the Territorial Guam Library and look it up, I'm sure you find a Carl Skeleton... Joe Ada passed the bills because Carl stated that it would not drain the General Fund, CARL, WHY HAVE YOU ALWAYS BEEN DISHONEST???
-- Frank Cruz (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
To (not the mauleg thing to firstname.lastname@example.org)
In regards to your response about me being an idiot, I don't appreciate the name calling. But, I guess I can't blame your inability to not be able to articulate your point in a more insightful manner because, after all you do support carl. But you still have nothing to say about Carls ethics as a leader. Can any of you? And until you can I would appreciate it if you would answer like an adult and not a child.
I think if you had Joe and Carls personal files and laid them on the table next to each other you would find the difference between ethical and non-ethical.
-- (email@example.com), October 27, 1998.
You know that Joe Ada swore on the family bible to his wife that he did not have anything to do with having sexual relationship with that Asian woman over at Mr. Torre's residence. Yeah, right Joe you are a liar and you operate on your own personnel code of ethics of hit and run.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 27, 1998.