I was wondering if any of you have given thought as to whether things will ever return to "normal?" Will we have to be self-sufficient for many years to come? I was thinking about this the other day and wondered if anyone has any input. Thanks

-- Preparin Ahead (workin@it.com), October 05, 1998

Answers

Since "nobody knows" the full impact of y2k, I think that you could come up with a zillion scenarios, including nuclear war, Chinese takeover, dark ages, etc. I see one's preparation plan as being in 3 stages: 1) escape prior to TSHTF (e.g., go rural); 2) short-term survival (e.g., stored food); 3) long-term survival (??.. this is where the "nobody knows" comes in!)

-- Joe (shar@pei.com), October 05, 1998.

If things do go back to 'normal'[whatever that is], you can bet that triple redundancy and other backup schemes will be put in place to avoid similar issues. If things don't go back to normal, it's anybody's guess as to what things will be like.

-- Karen Cook (browsercat@hotmail.com), October 05, 1998.

Someone who posts regularly on another Y2K website posted once that in their family they have a saying. It goes: "Normal is a setting on my dryer."

With many people I think there will be no real "going back to normal". As with folks who lose loved ones for many reasons, I think what we will have is a "new normal", the shape of which we do not know, but could affect by our today attitudes and behaviors.

Anyone interested in exploring what some folks are doing to envision the future should join us at Beyond 2000 Discussion Board, at the follwing URL:

http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb134913

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 05, 1998.

"Normal" is relative.

IMHO, it'll take a generation before people feel like things are "normal" again. If that soon. Of course, it will probably look very different that it does now. And that may not be a bad thing...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), October 05, 1998.

I think Joe summed it up pretty good. Since we don't know just how bad it will be, we can't really know what our future will be like. We all hope and pray that it will NOT be a 10+ with nuclear war...because things will not only be abnormal, they will never, ever be the same again. But, since we don't know, we just need to keep on doing as we are...preparing, warning others, stocking up on water and food, etc. This is the best that we can do, so that we won't look back with regrets that we should have taken action and done more and taken y2k more seriously. After being out in Omaha today and seeing groceries stores still stocked up, gave me a good feeling. But, I know deep down inside though that the day will come (don't know when) and those same shelves will be bare, due to panic, shortages, and y2k. Now is the time to stock up and prepare while there is still plenty out there and it isn't hectic yet. Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), October 05, 1998.

After. The word rings in my head. After,...what do you expect after the initial disorder? What would you change about today's "normal" in a time after the disorder of Y2K...what would you strive to do differently, if anything? It is a more than viable question...we hold the future now in our minds and hearts.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 05, 1998.

What if "after" is justa bump. Or not even a bump. Will we have learned anything? I don't think so. We shall go on as we have always gone on. We shall increase our tribe/family as we always have. Do you know that we, Homo sapiens are no more than a tick of time on the clock of history? Struggle if you wish. Does it make one iota of difference when we attempt to apply our conceptions upon the overlay of history? I think we are presumptious to think that we are special. Civilizations way before us have also thought themselves to be special. They were not, nor shall we be.

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), October 05, 1998.

Normal, hmmmm....??? I believe this is teaching us that we do not need to be dependent on technology, but God. He is the only one who can be of REAL help to us...and EACH OTHER. But are we ready to be of help. This will seperate the old adage of THE ONE WITH THE MOST TOYS AT THE END WINS...When and I hope we dont, see moms holding the infants looking for food. Babies in need, others in need. Compassion will it EVER reign ? I believe it will beginning with and most certainly after, see God does have a way to humble America. When was the last time ANY of us cried becuz of the famine in other countries? We are for the most part a VERY BLESSED NATION., yet the most insensitive and selfish around. Many years we have been blessed many years we have grown indifferent to the needs of others. Normal...hmmmm?

-- justafriend (privacy@aol.com), October 05, 1998.

AMEN.!

-- carrie (privacy@aol.com), October 05, 1998.

I have no special gift to see beyond the capacity of any other human being. I know however that I have consciousness, aware of myself and the universe around me in ways I sometime cannot quite fathom. And because I am wired the way I am, I am not content to sit back with zero expectations of how I would imagine things to be in a more reasonable rational world.

Just me, and okay if I'm the only one wondering. 'Course I know I'm not.

Universe=One song. I just have to listen differently and I can hear much of the counterpoint.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 05, 1998.

You can't go home again

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 05, 1998.

Yes, I can, Uncle.

You see, I'm only a sojourner, just passing through, not conformed to the pattern of this world.

In other words, "This ain't home."

rocky

-- rocky (rknolls@hotmail.com), October 05, 1998.

OK, you can go. Everyone else must remain seated.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 05, 1998.

Whatever lies ahead for us after this coming shakeout you can be fairly certain that we will not return to this "normal" way of life. Each of us will be forever changed by this, no matter if it is just a small bump, or the damnest wreck you ever saw. We will always be changed by whatever experiences we have yet to come by way of y2k. I hope that we will end up better off "on the other side of the gulf" but I do offer one short observation: If we are now the most free of all of the nation states of this planet and our government fails us in this we will, in all probability, have a less free state in the end. That having been said I say "Beware of the guy in the shiny tin suit riding the little white horsey". We could end up as bad as Nazi Germany. Yes folks - it can happen here too.

An aside to Uncle D - You and I seem to have been raised in somewhat the same fashion in our mis-spent youth (I was reform school class of 55). You and I think quite alike on most issues. However - you can go home again - you just can't go back. A slight but very significant difference.

S.O.B. (La.)

-- sweetolebob(La) (buffgun@hotmail.com), October 05, 1998.

OK,OK,OK, I give up, Me,Me,Me (I am, afterall, Uncle)

You can go home again, it will not, however, be the same.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 05, 1998.

Depends on what you mean by 'same'. Things are never the same, they are always in a constant state of flux. But I expect the real shocker of the next century to be the disintegration and eventual complete disappearance of the Christian religon. The trend is pretty obvious to anyone who has studied the history of the church, and the current large number of (somewhat muted) churches that have begun predicting the end of the world by 2001 (didn't even get their dates right - don't they know Christ was born in 5 BC and died in 27 AD) will only add to the confusion and general breakup. Anyhow, that is how it seems to me. Please don't email me and call me a Satanist over this, I am just looking at history and extrapolating the trend. The church breakup started nearly 400 years ago, and has accelerated ever since.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), October 05, 1998.

Paul, there never has been a "Christian Religion" per se. The only religion ever ordained by God was Judism, and that was nailed to the cross of Jesus Christ, never to raise its ugly head again!

What you're talking about is "Churchanity", a disgraceful entity that man contrived to supplant the true church. Churchanity has millions of members, thousands of divisive doctrines, and all daring to call themselves "Christian". I'm happy to hear you say it's falling apart, 'cause this false representation of Christianity has been a tool in the hand of Satan for much too long.

The true church is the body of Christ on earth. It's a living, vibrant, organism, a spiritual body here upon earth with its head in Heaven. It's NOT an organization that you can join, and far from disintegrating, it's growing at precisely the right speed. You see, the true church is a 'little flock', sometimes gathered together geographically, but more often scattered in amongst the tares of churchanity, i.e. organized religion. When gathered together the body grows, flourishes in fruitfulness, and expresses itself to the world in Christ likeness. But, when the sheep are scattered among religious goats, they are starved, weak, ineffective, and fruitless.

Not to worry though.... Almighty Yahweh has everything under control, including Y2K. All that men need to do is to humble themselves under the mighty hand of God, and ask for mercy. No struggling, no penance, no trying harder, no work of any kind, and NO CHURCHANITY! "For by grace are you saved through faith, and that (faith) not of yourselves. It (faith) is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9). Comments Deedah?

-- Arcy Williams (arcy.w@usa.net), October 06, 1998.

Peace to you, my brother

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 06, 1998.

Arcy

Just so you dont think that Ive lost all of my feistiness,

You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

James 2:24

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 06, 1998.

Uncle D.

I been real careful not to step inna dis but: Dis time ya gotta LOOK at what ya wrote.

You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

James 2:24

Dis is how ya SEE that he is Justified

NOT how he is justified.

The several groups partially lead by Chuck Colson (I know he don' lead 'em he jes got 'em ta siddown togetha) and the Largest Cult in Modern times (my roman church) have come to a sorta agreemint dat Faith alone justifies a person.

I don' spect this "'greement" ta last a long time and prolly da Pope hasn't stepped in yet but,

perhaps this is the first step in recinciling my Catholicism, my Christianity, and my Freemasonry.

One CAN hope.

Sumptin' about HOPE bein da las ting outta her box.

cr

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 06, 1998.

Uncle D. (OOPS TAKE 2)

I been real careful not to step inna dis but: Dis time ya gotta LOOK at what ya wrote.

You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

James 2:24

Dis is how ya SEE that he is Justified

NOT how he is justified.

The several groups partially lead by Chuck Colson (I know he don' lead 'em he jes got 'em ta siddown togetha) and the Largest Cult in Modern times (my roman church) have come to a sorta agreemint dat Faith alone justifies a person.

I don' spect this "'greement" ta last a long time and prolly da Pope hasn't stepped in yet but,

perhaps this is the first step in recinciling my Catholicism, my Christianity, and my Freemasonry.

One CAN hope.

Sumptin' about HOPE bein da las ting outta her box.

cr

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 06, 1998.

Dear Uncle D. (OOPS TAKE 2)

I been real careful not to step inna dis but: Dis time ya gotta LOOK at what ya wrote.

You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

James 2:24

Dis is how ya SEE that he is Justified

NOT how he is justified.

The several groups partially lead by Chuck Colson (I know he don' lead 'em he jes got 'em ta siddown togetha) and the Largest Cult in Modern times (my roman church) have come to a sorta agreemint dat Faith alone justifies a person.

I don' spect this "'greement" ta last a long time and prolly da Pope hasn't stepped in yet but,

perhaps this is the first step in recinciling my Catholicism, my Christianity, and my Freemasonry.

One CAN hope.

Sumptin' about HOPE bein da las ting outta her box.

cr

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 06, 1998.

WELL another lesson learned DO NOT HIT REFRESH BUTTON WHEN IN POST MODE AND THEN SAY "YES" TO THE QUESTION ABOUT "REOST USING FORM DATA"

I am now suitably embarrassed, and have administered a sound thwacking to the apropriate portions of my anatomy.

Please pass the hair shirt?

Chuck

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 06, 1998.

The way I see it, if Y2K really messes things up, we'll have the blackouts, food shortages, etc. That will spark violence in some areas, or people could die from the cold in the north. But these would be the short-term effects. Over the long haul, I don't envision some kind of Mad Max scenario.

It's more likely that bank failures and business closings (or massive layoffs) combined with the slipping global economy would result in a recession or depression situation. Many of us could be out of work, or forced to change jobs. These economic troubles would be longer lasting, and more widespread than the short-term effects.

I don't even try to imagine anything more specific than that. Details of the future are impossible to predict. I've never been creative enough to imagine the types of things that have actually happened to me.

-- Mike (gartner@execpc.com), October 06, 1998.

Thanks for the laugh Chuck

vic

-- Vic (Light_servant@yahoo.com), October 06, 1998.

I thought there was an unspoken "law" within this discussion group NOT to malign people of different faiths in the course of our communications about Y2K? Civility and tolerance help us all stay "on topic".

When Arcy made his comment about Judaism never raising its ugly head again, or some such crap, we sunk to a new low.

I am disappointed that some of you who responded to his post didn't call him on this.

Out of line. Please stop it. There are good people of faith in every color and flavor. If we are to get through this mess, we have to ACT as Christ/Moses/Buddah and other great spiritual forces did... not just espouse "I'm right, you're wrong" personal beliefs.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@ptd.net), October 06, 1998.

Didn't want to start another "GOD IS NOT MOCKED" or "Jack VanImpe talks on series on Y2K- Hard Hitting" or "Has the level of discussion improved?"

BY PROCLAMATION OF HIS ROYAL MAJESTY

Hear ye! Hear ye! The thread must now return to its origin of intent! Upon penalty of DEATH!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 06, 1998.

I hope and pray that whatever Y2K does to us as a people, a nation, a world, that in the end we will build a more rational society.

I like the comment about "normal is a setting on the dryer!" I'll have to remember that one. It's so true. What I consider normal, you might think is totally weird, dude. Kind of like how the Right sees a dictatorship of the Left on the way, and the Left sees a dictatorship of the Right coming.

As to the original question -- will things ever return to normal -- I think that once recovery starts, it will proceed very quickly. But, if we're lucky, it'll take far longer to rebuild all the gov't bureaucracy garbage.

Finally, on matters of faith... James also told us that "faith without works is dead." I didn't understand for a long time, until recently, that what he was saying is that a vibrant, living faith shows itself in "good works." Faith does not equal works, but faith leads to works.

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), October 06, 1998.

I have only been "y2k aware" for 3 months. In the last 4 weeks or so, 4 people that I know have had untimely deaths. So when I dream about what life will be like after y2k, I must remind myself that I may not even BE here FOR y2k. No one knows when they're going check out; so amid all my preparations I must constantly make sure I'm making the most of each day-it could be my last. If y2k turns out to be a "hiccup",(wich I seriously doubt), I won't regret anything that I have bought or sold- my only regret would be if I had stopped enjoying some measure of happiness while I was preparing. You might wonder why I'm making this statement on this post- I geuss I'm writing it more for me, to remind myself to not get so caught up in tommorow that I miss out on today.

-- madeline (runner@bcpl.net), October 06, 1998.

Well said, Madeline!

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), October 06, 1998.

I accept the sharp rebuke from Sara, and offer my heartfelt apology to this forum! My offensive comment was made without thinking about how it might be seen, either by those who practice Judaism or by some Christian believers who have been taught that Christianity is simply an extention of Judaism, which of course, it isn't.

In the future I shall endeavor to keep my posts free of caustic or offensive non-biblical remarks. Thanks for the soft touch, Deedah!

-- Arcy Williams (arcy@usa.net), October 06, 1998.

Apology accepted, Arcy. Thank you.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@ptd.net), October 06, 1998.