It seems to me the BIGGER question concerns not the Y2K readiness of the bank's software, but rather the threat of a bank run. Banks keep, what...3 - 6% of deposits on demand? How many of you, and how many of those you know plan on withdrawing "a little" just in case? I certainly do. And if we see a "national bank holiday" declared for 2 weeks (2 months?), what kind of scenarios will precipitate from that?

-- Robert M. Witty Jr (rwitty@yahoo.com), September 10, 1998

Answers

Once the bankruns hit, and the banks "holidays" get imposed, all the scenarios go downhill from there. This will happen once John Q. Public realizes that yes, indeed, Y2K is a real problem that will personally affect them. There really is not that much time left, either (e.g., the Joanne Effect starting 1/1/1999; see earlier thread).

-- Joe (shar@pei.com), September 10, 1998.

That's why you need to start your bank run now! Why wait in lines?

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), September 10, 1998.

Right on,

Panic early, avoid the rush

-- help (me@withdraw.com), September 10, 1998.

If there is a "national bank holiday" declared, how will that effect my safety deposit box? I keep my important documents there...house deed, birth certificates, car titles, etc? Should I pull them out and get a fire box for the house?

-- Gina Decker (gngdecker@ckt.net), September 10, 1998.

Yes, if the banks close you can't get to your safety deposit box. Pull your important papers.

-- Pastor Chris (pastorchris@lifetel.com), September 10, 1998.

Gina

The items you have mentioned are OK, but do not leave CASH or GOLD in your box, as they might be confiscated should things go really, really bad. The Gub'mint has in the past, and might in the future, go into your box, should TSHTF.

A fire box, with a combination lock, bolted to the floor, buried under blankets in the closet, is a good place to stash the cash that you would use up within in a couple of weeks or so.

Hiding the rest, carefully, in moisture proof non metalic containers underground, is always a good idea. This is known as "Midnight Gardening". Just be sure to use a easy to remember system for future retrieval, such as a bush planted on top.

Be sneaky, it's fun.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 10, 1998.

Good to see Pastor Chris among the living! :)

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), September 10, 1998.

Hi Pastor Chris, you've been scarce. You too, Bardou. Where is Donna Barthuley? Some formerly faithful writers have been missing. Arcy was heard from finally...others still missing...don't you guys know you're like family? Check in every once in a while!

-- Keep in Touch (we're@family.now), September 10, 1998.

I lurked here for many a day before taking the plunge. So many familiar voices silenced (or much quieter now).

You must all stay in touch, because if this situation turns out to be a Paul or Buddy type scenerio, Deedah is going to throw the party of a lifetime, maybe two lifetimes. And everybody is invited. (well maybe not everybody) No expense spared, to the moon Alice. (Plenty of eats to go around, and not that crap that Greg sells, real cow meat for the less highly evolved, and wholesome veggie stuff for Donna B)

Sister Sledge said it "We are family, I got all my sisters with me"

Yeah! Baby Yeah!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 10, 1998.

Get your stash as of yesterday folks. PLEASE don't wait much longer. You will find that it is far better indeed to be 6 months early rather than 1 minute late. BTW Uncle Deedah - You are dead right the crop from the "midnight garden" is always good and has never failed to produce. P.S. scattered metal bits help delay finding the shiny stuff too. Garden equipment can even include PVC pipe I've heard.

-- sweetolebob (buffgun@hotmail.com), September 11, 1998.

Hey, you guys...I'm getting a little shaky here...seriously....do you guys mean go and withdraw all that you have in the bank or just enough for 2 weeks or a month? It's hard, very hard for me to do that. I worked for a large bank for 20 years and always felt that my money was safe there. (And yet while working there I had occasionally heard of someone old dying and family discovering tons of money in coffee cans and hidden thru-out the house!) It is kind of scarey having to hide a large amount of moola in the house or back yard. Where do I buy one of those safes that you are talking about? How much are they? I have not been on the forum but feel like I am family because I am getting to know you all by your comments, concerns and humor! :-) Also I am trying to be strong and motivated to prepare for this y2k thing and often feel alone in it all. (I have faith in the Lord and know that he is always with me, yet I need you guys too.) So, am I headed for the bank tomorrow morning? I wonder what my hubby will say when his wife, the former banker, tells him! :-( or :-O we'll see. A member of the family, Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), September 11, 1998.

Good idea - the Midnight Gardening. I wasn't really comfortable with having everything in one fire safe box. Never know who might come into your house - maybe someone who has read this forum and knows what we're all doing! I couldn't figure out how to do the outside thing so thanks very much.

By the way, yes, please, start pulling stuff out. If that is too scary to contemplate right now, I have a friend who is saving all of their $1 and now $5 bills and stashing them away. And change. Not the most effifcient way, maybe, but psychologically what they can handle.

Yes, I DO believe that the possibility of big bank runs are even bigger than the possibility of disruptions in banking service via power, telecommunications. You know the Fed is planning to print up an extra $50 billion in addition to the $150 billion they currently have stashed in case of "unusual demands by depositors". By the way, if $200 billion in currency suddenly shows up in the economy, what happens to the value of the greenbacks I already had?

Although the farm economy staggered before 1929, and the stock market crashed in 1929, the banks failed at an accelerating rate for the next 8 years or so. This is not gonna be a 3 or 6 month thing, I think!

Melissa - from Iowa, by the way

-- Melissa (financed@forbin.com), September 11, 1998.

Blondie

Number 1, you are not alone, there are many frightened people here (though many, including myself, are now simply resigned, que sera sera)

As to the safe I have, it is a top of the line 'Sentry' brand, fireproof combination safe, bolted to the floor. About 120 bucks or so at 'SERVICE MERCHANDISE' It will NOT save your valuables from determined thieves with a sledgehammer and a crowbar. It WILL stop fire and casual thieves from destroying or stealing SOME of your valuables. If you wish to keep thousands and thousands of dollars in a safe see a BONDED LOCKSMITH and ask about floor safes.

I cannot tell you what is best for you, read, consider, mull, then decide what you think is best. (copout? see my lawyer)

If you think the banks are suspect, take your money out. IT IS YOUR MONEY. You earned it, you can do as you wish with it.

One word of advice, IMHO it would be best to not keep it all in one place, and it would be best not to keep it all in one form. Gold and Silver are cheap now, and have an intrinsic value that would serve you well in tough times. With thousands of years of history behind them, it is a pretty safe bet that they would hold their value in a pinch.

As to "Midnight Gardening" see my earlier post, and that of s.o.b.

Be sneaky, its fun.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 11, 1998.

I know many posting here believe it is possible/probable that gold could be confiscated. Does anyone know if silver is as vulnerable to confiscation? K S

-- Karen Shirer (kgshire@aol.com), September 11, 1998.

Melissa from Iowa, I think $1 and $5 bills are great. I am doing the same because if the banks are closed (Holiday?) and you make a purchase, what are the odds you will get change back? Bigger bills are OK too, if you're making a large purchase. The same holds true for gold- if you only buy it by the ounce, you will have a tough time with smaller purchases.

-- Gayla Dunbar in Texas (privacy@please.com), September 11, 1998.

Blondie: I did not intend to panic you, or anyone else for that matter, I was referring to that amount of cash that you feel will be needed to get to the other side of the big bumps. I realize that this is a different choice for each of us, I use 6 months myself, but I am an optimist. I may be wrong, I have ben wrong before, but my family will have to live/die by my choice. Yours will probably be a different time frame, hence a different view of the cash. As to your banking habits - these too are yours to do. It is as alien to my nature to keep all your cash in a bank as it is to keep it all in "first mattress", or even all in FRNs for that matter. If you want a different fright - this would be a good time for Uncle Sam to issue "son of dollar' or 'dollar two" and declare all existing FRNs invalid, or only valid for other nations use. You can conjure up any number of boogeymen or scenarios. Please don't panic just yet. Take your time, think it out and then act in your own best interests. Some cash, some gold coins, some silver coins, even some trade items (coffee, cigarettes, etc)there is no perfect answer for it all.

-- sweetolebob (buffgun@hotmail.com), September 11, 1998.

Blondie - My attitude is, it isn't earning much interest in the bank, so what do you have to lose by taking it out? Nothing.

-- Amy Leone (aleone@amp.com), September 11, 1998.

Ok....who said (You know the Fed is planning to print up an extra $50 billion in addition to the $150 billion they currently have stashed in case of "unusual demands by depositors".) ?

You know there's a lot of "rumors" going around. Forgive me, but I'm a computer programer who likes the hard facts...so please, direct me to a reference where I can read this statistic from an authoritative source. I'm online doing research for several families, and before I pass this tidbit along I want some evidence that it is true.

For those concerned about withdrawing "all" their money from the bank. Why is it "all" sitting in cash? Why don't you have it diversified in various long & short term investments? If you have more than three - six month's salary sitting in a bank then you should see a financial advisor (that you can trust).

Someone is correct in saying that the Gov can (and has) delared gold and currency 'illegal'. The operative word here is 'diversify'. I'd rather have a good tiller than $500 bucks in an economic crisis. The tiller's value cannot be withdrawn by the Gov. Someone will always make a good deal with you in exchange for a tiller--but not always in exchange for a fist full of greenbacks, or even gold if it's illegal.

-- Robert Witty (rwitty@yahoo.com), September 11, 1998.

Robert from ??, go to this website, scan down to August 20th, and pick any source you want: USA Today, Reuters, Newsbytes, News.com, etc. All of the other articles may help you in your research, too. Good luck!

http://www.year2000.com/y2karticles.html

-- Gayla Dunbar in TX (privacy@please.com), September 11, 1998.

I be here....just lurking more, doing what I have learned about survival,...sitting, listening, looking...nice to be missed though.

As to bankruns, just urging my kids to make sure hey have mney out...I haven't got much to keep out and haven't really patronized banks much for the last 6 years...hate them as a matter of fact. Many people I know are not happy banking customers, live differently. Cash is.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), September 11, 1998.

Dang, forgot to say thanks to Uncle D for remembering about the veggies...you all should see the smile on my face. Uncle, yes...."family". I was still eating a bit of fish now and then til the other day when my favorite koi flipped herself out of the pond during the night to be feasted upon by the neighborhood cats. After cleaning up the mess I've new resolve about my ongoing journey in the land of vegetable protein. (sigh, I really liked almon and halibut too...ah well, as Paul Simon sings: "I never worry, why should I? It's all gonna fade!")

Hang in there, Lovelies...

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), September 11, 1998.

Deedah,

<< You must all stay in touch, because if this situation turns out to be a Paul or Buddy type scenerio, Deedah is going to throw the party of a lifetime, maybe two lifetimes. And everybody is invited. (well maybe not everybody) >>

Okay, so are Buddy and I on the invitee list, or off of it? :-)

-- Paul Neuhardt (neuhardt@ultranet.com), September 11, 1998.

Paul

Both of you are welcome to attend. Trolls need not apply.

Should the 'no big deal' materialize, I will encourage all who were in that boat to gloat, and indulge in "I told you so" behavior.

It will be your day of honor, and I shall prostrate myself at your feet, to receive my public whipping, while crying tears of joy.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 11, 1998.

Robert-- Fed Plans Cash Reserve For 1999

how's that for terse?

-- Max Dixon, from Utah (Max.Dixon@gte.net), September 11, 1998.

When storing money (cash or metals) you should hide some and bury the rest. When evil comes knocking, you want to be able to resist for a little bit, then give up your "stash" (a small percentage), and hopefully enjoy that which you have buried. Learn to "keep your mouth shut"! Buy silver from various locations, keep your extra food out of site. The exception is guns, let everyone know you are a "gun nut", love to practice with your 8 round 12 gauge. NRA bumberstickers, etc... I know some real gun nuts, and they would not be my first choice for a robbery.

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), September 12, 1998.

Gun nuts would be the first place the gov will look to confiscate.

Vic

-- Vic (Light_Servant@yahoo.com), September 12, 1998.

Wow. Didn't know you folks were all so DEVIOUS. You make me proud.

YES- get a couple or three month's worth of cash. _Now_! I wouldn't take all the money out of the bank in cash though, unless 2-3 month's expenses are all you have in there. You don't want that much cash around in green paper. It's rag paper backed by no more than the government's promises, and if the government is shaky the dollar will come to resemble the ruble. Therefore if things are going to be that bad, cash won't be worth much for long. I think it's likely you'll see smartcard 'cash' if it's bad or goes on for long, or else there'll be new Monopoly-money floating around. Bartering will be the basis of whatever economy is left if that's the case.

About a month before the Fed made the "rest easy, we're printing more money" announcement (USA Today, 20 Aug 98) they were denying such a thing was necessary. Just goes to show you... .

By all means stick with smaller bills. Ones, fives and tens will be the last to see "new" styling- the new twenties will be out soon. If you're that worried, turn the other money into something else permanent and useful. Get housing, food, heat, clothing, health needs, first aid, security etc. taken care of *first*. I personally think a minimum of one full bag of 'junk silver' dimes (face value $1000) per person is a good idea for insurance if you can afford it. If you have more than the $4000 or so each bag will cost, you might want to consider gold bullion coins (American eagles). I would not put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak, no matter what. Diversifying your "portfolio" is a good idea here also.

For budding midnight gardeners: go to the local Home Depot or whatever. Get some 4" PVC pipe, some glue- on caps (the 'permanent' kind- no need to worry about the others)- you'll need two caps per "bank". Get a can of the appropriate PVC glue also- the application brush is in the lid of the can. There are different glues for different types of pipe- be sure you get the right one. Use a saw to cut the necessary length of pipe (not too long- it gets heavy when filled- $500 in junk silver weighs 25 pounds or so and will fill up about a foot of 4" pipe. If you can fill up a foot of 4" pipe with gold I have no idea how much it would weigh but I envy you everything except the hernia.) Brush some glue all the way around the end, push on a cap (you can brush some glue on the inside of the cap too if you want), immediately push the cap on the end of the pipe and turn it a half turn or so. Put your goodies inside, then cap the other end as described above. Plant in a safe place, and remember where you stashed it. It'll be there till someone comes back for it or forever, whichever comes first. The PVC glue is actually a solvent that temporarily melts the plastic, and if you seal it correctly your "bank" will become a single unit.

I do cache reports (detailing contents, container, location/landmarks, depth) for the stashes I plant, in writing, and code them using a simple substitution code based on a book. One family member gets the coded reports, another has the code key, cleverly concealed on the bookshelf with all the other books. Post hole diggers work well for putting in small containers like this. Remember to put your spoil dirt on a tarp as you dig your hole, and scatter the excess elsewhere when your stash is hidden.

The old timers at home used Mason jars- they were called "post hole banks" because the jar was often hidden under a fence post.

PVC works well for other stuff also, but bigger sizes (8" or 10") are not likely available at home repair places. You'll have to deal with the commercial/ contractor supply folks. The pipe and caps are also MUCH more expensive.

-- Lee (NC) (lplapin@hotmail.com), September 12, 1998.

Lee

Devious is as devious does. Excellent directions for the budding gardener, you are quite verbose on the sneaky subject, experience?

Perhaps I should elaborate more when making an offhand statement about a subject, as I realize (belatedly) that many who read these posts do not have "rubber meets the road experience" in these matters.

If I may be so bold kind sir, I would like to add one thing. When using PVC pipe as a container for items that would damaged by moisture (cash, silver to a lesser degree, ammunition for those so inclined) be sure to seal those items in mylar bags to ward off H2O. Even if a perfect seal is obtained when gluing the ends (not always the case for first timers) water will eventually migrate into PVC pipe after long time burial. (Believe it or not)

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 12, 1998.

Incorporating PVC pipe filled with "whatever" into your home plumbing system also works. Just butt the pipe along a wall so it looks like part of the regular plumbing system.

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), September 12, 1998.

Uncle DeeDah - re: PVC pipe/water. You are (as usual) correct. Another point of moisture for our more humid locations types - condensate will also form inside the pipes due to the excess humidity condensing from the temperature changes (day/night) unless you bury it deeper than I ever cared to dig. This obviously refers to the paper stuff. You have to wrap it good folks, and mylar and a ziplock bag works. Or so I have been told by some who do such things. An old(er) firestone type myself.

DAVE: re plumbing. It sure does! Thanks. this shows that even the ole dogs can miss the perfectly obvious sometimes.

LEE: Listen to your Uncle Deedah. He knows where of he types. Cut the junk in half (if need be) and ADD some silver eagles. Be sure you wrap any paper stuff before you use the pvc bank. The glue seems to do funny things to paper after awhile. You are certainly aware of some of the finer arts of life (and of history re the "post hole bank"). Thanks for the refresher on these things. I too sometimes "disremember" a few of the basics.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (LA) (buffgun@hotmail.com), September 12, 1998.

Where can I buy this mylar - is it just in bags or can I buy some and heat or vacuum seal it? Thanks, nightime gardening gal.

-- Laurane (familyties@rttinc.com), September 12, 1998.

Laurane

Mylar is most commonly used in helium baloons, it is that shiny metalic looking plastic stuff (actually a thin layer of aluminum fused to plastic) It is not a common item at your local Wal-Mart, but try your local florist, they use it in flower arrangements. It can be heat sealed, or taped with: TA DA- mylar tape.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 12, 1998.

I am on a hillside (not hilltop!), and do not (at least now...) intend to make such "night deposit" boxes, so the problem does not affect me. I have noticed however, great amounts of run off, even from normal thunderstorms, in the little creek below our house. Actual floods, as in the Midwest and Northeast aerlier, obviously afffect some people.

However, those who do wish to use this practice should consider maximum water levels and water pressure and direction (erosion, trees/fences/runoff) in considering their locations. For example, if erosion should knock over a fencepost, or expose a PVC canister, it would tend to float downstream with the water flow, and.....

Permafrost is not a problem here, but could affect recovery and placement in more "temperate" regions nearer the North and South poles. On the plus side, I know of nothing that would deliberately eat through an externally burrowed "bank".

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), September 13, 1998.

You people are really getting goofy with this talk of putting money in canisters and then burying it the yard. Let's not forget about dog's digging in your garden. What do you do if someone happens by with a metal detector? How about the federal govt. and their money sniffing dogs? What happens if a gofer burrows in and eats your cash? Permafrost and the north and south poles???????HOW STUPID IS THAT? I think some of you people like to hear yourselves talk. What does that P.E. stand for after your name, Mr. Cook??? Perpetually Esoteric? I hope you all head for the hills. Good riddance!

-- Sane Man (Sane-Man@aol.com), September 13, 1998.

(in)sane one

Even if you are right and live two weeks past 2000, you are not invited to the party.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 13, 1998.

Thank-you Uncle Deedah! Mr. Sane Man, it is OK on this forum to have a difference of opinion. What is NOT OK is being rude and hateful just because you think differently. Some of the points you brought out have some merit. Can't you express your opinion without attacking other people?

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), September 13, 1998.

Oh verily, verily, long I ponder the ways and foibles of man... Is it truly better to pause and ignore the slings and arrows doth thrown against my struggling soul as I tempt the fates and try to discuss mightier things of great import to the humble readers of this fine missive. Or rather, should I construe in his (the (in)sane reader's) rambling words a valid attempt to discuss relevent matters and respond to the (in)sane one's comments, responding perhaps to train, to teach, and to instruct others who long for those small nuggets of truth that may have been inadvertently overlooked or not fully explained to the best of my ability, due perhaps to misconception or poor choice of vocabulary on my part. For lo, I am but a humble servant and may perhaps have made assuptions of logic or thought not possible to the reader in question, even as I try to be short and succient in my verbosity.

To briefly review matters for this, the (in)sane reader, apparently a new reader to the forum. We grant in our uncertainity of the future many ranges and options too each person. In the context of this missive, the question has been presented that those institutions normally having custody of our funds may be unavailable for retrieveal of such wealth at, shall we say, convenient times when that wealth is needed. Also, it is presumed that those istitutions may have insufficient funds available during or prior to the troubles ahead to allow readers to withdraw needed funds and treasures. However, withdrawing funds early presents a problem of providing a safe place to keep such withdrawn treasures. Thus, certain individuals have chosen to invest many valuable moments of their time to discuss various alternative secure storage methodologies for these wealth and riches.

As I value the time of these friends and associates, it is appropriate that I provide certain comments and opinions to these associates based on my own small and humble experiences. These readers, may also, if they chose, invest their time reviewing such muses, and perhaps gain knowledge and wisdom that will avail them through these troubles. Or I, by listening politely to their knowledge and experience, may too gain in knowledge and stature, learning from the fountain of knowledge, wit, and experience that theirs to share as they make polite, reserved, and diplomatic corrections or revisions to my humble opinions.

Such is the case of subterrean safety of stored goods, or buried treasure, in the venacular. Now, I grant also that I have chosen not to, at this time, use such storage devices. However, I begged the experience of others, and offered several small comments for analysis by the reading multitude. As it doth seem that the (in)sane reader in question perhaps may be need of further "explanantion" of these comments; hence I shall attempt to further "explanate" him of the reasoning behind my comments.

He questions my concerns of premafrost. For I hath often in the past had need of excavating earth in times of colder weather, times whence the earth had the consistancy and strength of concrete and rock. And verily in such times of long frozen nights and short dark days, had I swore never to do such labor again, had I the option of avoiding said labor. Rather, I swore while attempting to cut and heave the frozen turf, always to move dirt in times of milder, warmer weather. In fact, just milder weather oft is called "temperate", hence my reference to same.

Further, as some readers of this epistle may note, such times of cold and intemperate climate may occur in regions both further north and south of my own humble abode in the mountains of a certain southern state. Thus, I must be constrained in my presentation not to omit these others, and to think of residents of Australia and New Zealand, Chili and Argentina, who may also consider such excavations to store goods of value and worth. Verily, as it is that such residents are in fact much closer to the lower, or southern pole, as I, it is entirely fitting that I include their needs in my humble thoughts. True, I grant your consideration that such storage in the southern countries of the realm might have no chilly weather until the later months of July and August, but still some will chose to plan for longer periods of desolation and heartbreak than others. Also, tis true that storage must begin before the fact or onset of troubles, hence perhaps some of those of southern neighbors may feel a desire to excavate such places of subterrean safety prior to the mild spring days of October and November. Aye, at such times, the shovel gets heavy and the labor great, even in the warmer days of spring.

Now, the timeliness and requirements for underground storage for those who abide to my north is much greater in the near weeks of January and February 2000. Thus, I ask consideration of my friends and neighbors to my north. They, as a brief review of this spinning sphere will indicate, are also truly closer to the opposite, or northern pole as my southern neighbors. Also, as some may attest, the ground also gets hard and resistant in times of cold and ice in that, a northly direction, the further to north one travels, til at last, the pole is reached if one wishes. (Again, I must warn against burial of treasured goods below the ice at the pole itself as the water table is high in that spot.)

Of cold and ice, yes, I have much experience in such northern areas, and verily, I hath chosen not make my abode in such climes. Recovery of stored wealth in outside in times of dark and cold and frozen earth is no pleasure.

The (in)sane reader doth question my cautions of flood waters and rodents. I too have had the pleasure of removing fallen trees and broken fences from low ground after high water has passed by. Many are the times when I have removed fallen trees from the property as they decide to lean and fall to earth, crushing all beneath their higher branches. I trust not the soft earth once subject to rising water. And greatly do I respect the power of flowing water as it rushes past and over fences and scrubberies. Should a shrubbery be simultaneously above a buried treasure and below the rushing water, it must surely be swept into the tumult and be washed to destinations unknown.

I do not in general talk to ground hogs and such rodents. Gophers do live in my neighborhood, I will not presume any knowledge of their dietary habits. I cannot assume to discuss their feelings about dining on plastic piping, glue, and various solvents because I do not talk to them, nor do I live with them. As I have not discussed the situation with squirrels, but have noticed that such of God's creatures eat but to live, I must defer to my (in)sane's reader first hand knowledge of the rodentia family and his obviously long experience with squirrels. Thus, I grant that various numbers of small, hungry rodents would tunnel underground, and be willing eat through 1/4" plastic and mylar to chew on cold hard metal and small pieces of paper. This then (rodent attack underground) is a concern for others who wish to store treasures underground. Note, too, that over my years of repairing underground piping sytstems, I have never seen plastic PVC piping in water, sewage, and drainage systems eaten by rodents, so again I must assume the (in)sane reader has first hand knowledge of such meals.

As a registered Professional Engineer, I have suffered through long classes, examinations and certification reviews, many extra taxes and high business fees to maintain and certify for public safety those design projects for which I am personally responsible. In this way, as an engineer, I am honored to hold the public's faith and trust in my skills and integrity to provide a safe and proper greater environment for my children and the world's future. I would, like the other lettered professionals whom I respect (MD, PhD, DDE, DVM, KGB, MVD, FBI, ATF, FAA, CIA, etc.), hope to be able to continue to offer such services through and after the troubles.

However, I have been publically challenged by the (in)sane reader in a matter of honor and integrity, and must thereby seek redress in the proper public forum in a manner suiting a (former) officer and a gentleman.

Jousting is, of course, the only appropriate response to this type of personal slight.

As the challenged person in a duel of honor, I am required to define my choice of weapons:

M1 tanks at 50 paces, with my choice of crewmen, at dawn, Jan 01 2001. I get first shot.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), September 14, 1998.

Richard

I am very impressed!

You have obviously taken the fencing lessons to heart, such finesse!

I am still stuck in the broadsword school, swing wildly, and lop off.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 14, 1998.

FORGIVE ME, I MEANT ROBERT, all else still applies, of course.

Richard is the poet, and I at times, and the nimwit. Does anyone have a scorecard, so that I can keep better track of the players?

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 14, 1998.

Re: banking, I thought you all might be interested in a recent conversation I had with a guy from my church who is CFO of his bank and responsible for y2k compliance. His is a relatively small bank, with about 4-5 regional banks (metro Chicago). He told me that much of the compliance efforts for him amount to calling and hassling OTHER COMPANIES who they rely on. To a large degree, he can't do too much more. Yes, they are getting their internal systems together, which in his case is not a vast network. On the other hand, he told me about ATMs as one example. A customer uses an ATM one mile from the bank. During that 15-20 seconds that she waits for the money to come out, the computer inside the ATM makes a varification call which first goes to New Jersey, bounces back to Milwaukee (home office, I think), confirms fund availability, and bounces OK back to ATM. At each of these places and everywhere in between (on the lines or in the relay computers), a glitch stops the transaction. So he calls and hassles, but can't do much more.

So, he is focusing his efforts on availability of funds on hand. Among other things, he is doing the following: preparing to buy/lease a self-contained mobil mini-banking station, purchasing generators, buying and quietly storing fuel, stocking up on cash, preparing for added armed security.

Just thought you might find this of some interest. I think I will go to my small local bank and ask them what they are doing. I doubt they will even be this prepared.

Steven Slaughter

-- steven slaughter (shousedesn@aol.com), September 16, 1998.

I think I'd change banks to that one which is preparing.

Thank you for your time investigating: what your friend describes is that 5-6-7 degree of connection and interface of services (telephone, satellite, power, switchgear, local program/master program/other program must ALL work properly) that is my biggest fear about banks and utilities and distribution/transportation.

Too many nails are missing from the "For want of a nail a show was lost, ..." poem.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), September 16, 1998.

One of the four large, regional banks HQ'd in this mid-western city knows, now, that it will not be compliant. Or at least, the guy running the project knows. this from the usual multi-hand source (somebody's sister in law works for the guy......)

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), September 17, 1998.