Throwing down the gauntlet {Is there anything left to discuss?} : LUSENET : TitanicShack : One Thread

In a way, it is a tribute to the thoroughness of the discussions and comments about the Titanic and the movie "Titanic" over the past 6 months that the most that can be added now is box-office figures and trivial stories about Hollywood memorabilia auctions that include a passing reference to the 1953 movie. But, with due respect to Dan and Michael, enough already! Kip, Peter and Thomas claim to be long-time enthusiasts of the Titanic disaster. Is there anything they can add that is not now generally known? How has this tragedy kept your interest for so long if it seems to have been discussed to exhaustion here in just 6 months? Surely they, or someone else, could enliven this discussion. Or maybe not? (BTW, I won't consider answers such as "Why don't YOU add something new?" or "What is your sexual orientation?" to be intelligent responses.)

-- Dalton (, June 20, 1998


Response to Throwing down the gauntlet

Dear Dan, Here is something that I have been wondering for some time. Is the child born to Mrs. ASTOR after the sinking of the Titanic still alive? I know there is a 90+ Astor in NYC,but I don't know her relation to John Astor? Did you know that Mrs. Astor ended up killing herself in the late 40's in Palm Beach Fl? So there! I find box office information very interesting, did you know there are whole web sites that track box office figures every day!

-- michael pitt (, June 20, 1998.

Response to Throwing down the gauntlet

Here's something interesting. Fredrick Fleet, Mrs. John Jacob Astor and Jack Thayer all dies by committing suicide.

-- ED (, June 20, 1998.

Hello Dan: Hey, you sound angry! Well, don't be. I would guess this discussion board is more focused on the Cameron film than the actual event and that is ok, with me anyway. The story of the Titanic has been a fixation with me since I was a young kid of nine years old and now I am approaching 50 in October and the fascination has not left me yet. I have never claimed to be an authority on the subject but have always had the interest in the mystery that surrounds her short life and the questions that can never be answered. In my basement workshop, on top of a cabinet, lies a model of the Titanic that I did back in the early 1980's when I was out of work with a completely smashed wrist. The model is now in great disrepair and probably looks worse than the actual ship (although it is in one piece and still has all of her stacks) and whenever I go down there it is the first thing that I see and it is a trigger for my mind. Having said all of that, the answer to your question of there being anything new to discuss is: probably not, but all the old questions are still there and will be forever. My hope is that with the recent film, people will start, once again, to explore the Titanic legend because it is, if nothing else, a fascinating event in world history.

Regards, Peter

-- Peter Nivling (, June 21, 1998.

Well here is a thought: Captain E. J. Smith. Was he a hero of the Titanic tragedy, a villain, or a scapegoat? Who was his family and what happened to them after his death? He seems to be the "forgotten man" other than the fact that he was the Captain of the Titanic!

Regards. Peter

-- Peter Nivling (, June 21, 1998.


The 90+ NYC Astor you're referring to is the widow of Vincent Astor, J. J.'s eldest son. As to J. J. and Madeline's child, he was born John Jacob Astor V. I have no information on his life, or whether he is still living (he'd be in his late 80s if still alive), but I've posted some queries. If I get anything, I'll post it here.


-- Kip Henry (, June 21, 1998.


As you have indicated, most of the Q&A topics have been exhausted, which is to be expected. I expect that interest will continue to wane until the end of August, when Paramount is expected to ramp-up their advertising campaign for the home video release. I've considered starting yet-another Q&A forum area for the home video release, which would probably end-up being redundant.

Eventually, I will write-up the world's biggest Titanic FAQ before the end of August; TitanicShack (tm) regulars who so wish will be credited, since this forum has been a collaborative effort.

-- Thomas M. Terashima (, June 22, 1998.

I have been a Titanic buff since I was eight years old: I still find interesting things about the ship I didn't know nearly every time I read something. People have been discussing the disaster and its meaning for over eighty years. If people want to discuss it, there is still plenty left.

I think part of the appeal of Titanic is the broad range of subjects it encompasses. You can study the event for its significance to maritime history, for its importance to engineering, for its social and cultural significance, for its depiction of human character--both good and bad. You can marvel at the esthetics of Titanic, and admire the greatness of mind, such as Thomas Andrews had, that brought such a ship into existance. You can study the smallness of mind that ignored eight ice warnings, wanted to break a meaningless speed record, and put Titanic where it is today. Studying Titanic can be a gateway to an era of history that is soon to fade into memory only: not many people are left who were alive in 1912. Looking at any picture of any room on the ship, be it first class or third class, conjures up all sorts of thoughts about an age that seems increasingly distant and hard for us to understand.

I think one of the facinating aspects of the movie is its ability to convey so much of the sense of life of that specific era (both good and bad) and still say something important that transcends any particular era. The story of Jack and Rose and Titanic touches us in ways I suspect some of us didn't know a work of art could. James Cameron gave us an unusual film, one which broke most of the currently "fashionable" rules of modern movie making, and it may be a while before we see the likes of it again. Many films I love, as well as other works of art, seem simpler and even occasionally a bit tiresome after repeated exposure; "Titanic" grows on me with each viewing, and seems more skillful and wonderous on the sixth trip to the theater than the first.

I don't believe that I will ever tire of talking with people about either the ship or the movie. If I do, I guess I will have to cheerfully roll up my mat and leave the party in search of new subjects to delight and move me.

-- Thomas Shoebotham (, June 24, 1998.

Yeah, Thomas S.! My sentiments exactly. Although I became obsessed with the movie and history only 6 months ago, at this rate my interest will hold for a long time. It's so refreshing to read the words of a true "Titanic lover" after spending so much of my free time spreading the gospel on anti-Titanic sites.

-- BobG (, June 24, 1998.

I've loved Titanic since the first time I heard of it and now I can't even remember when that was. Though I talked about it for a long time after a while no one in my family wanted to rediscuss the event anymore and so I had to shut up and move on to other things. However when there was show on about can bet I did my best to see it. Then this movie called Titanic came along and I saw it and fell in love with it and the mystery of the ship all over again. Then I found this site and I have had the chance to discuss, listen, argue and laugh to my hearts content. Though my family is once again sick of hearing me rehash every detail of what happened on Titanic I can still come here and read other peoples thoughts and contribute my own. So to whomever thought up this site I just have to say a huge THANK YOU.


-- Miranda Swearingen (, July 01, 1998.

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