The Southerner and The Southern Crescent

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Did this passenger train ever operate under the name of "The Southern"?

Thanks you.

-- ross palmes (rpalmes@linneman.com), June 01, 1998

Answers

Ross--I looked through what references I had as did Barry Kimble and neither of us could find any mention of a train called "The Southern". I'm curious though that you ask, did you see a reference to it somewhere? Larry

-- Larry Puckett (lpuckett@geocities.com), June 08, 1998.

Did the "Southern Crescent" ever run as a freight train. ?

-- Paul Perkins (pperkins@pseg.com), December 15, 1998.

The Southerner and the Southern Crescent were two distinct trains operated by the Southern Railway. There was no train simply called the Southern.

-- Roy P. Bower (RoyPBower@prodigy.net), December 20, 1998.

I remember riding "The Southerner" in the late '40's, early'50's as a small child. We took it from New Orleans to Greenville, SC. I don't know what the ultimate destination was though. I know I looked at the timetable, but haven't seen one for years. It may have been the east/west run.

-- Molly Kenney (squawv@aol.com), January 03, 1999.

The "Southerner" operated from Washington/Atlanta/Birmingham/New Orleans. I believe it was trains 47 & 48. I also believe its companion was the "Pelican", trains 41 & 42. The "Crescent" also operated Washington to New Orleans but went West Point Route from Atlanta to Montgomery and L&N from Montgomery to New Orleans. I think the "Crescent" was trains 37 & 38, but don't hold me to that one.

-- Dwight Richardson (rdr77@aol.com), January 21, 1999.


The "Crescent" was Nos. 37 & 38. The "Pelican" (41 & 42) while operating between Washington and New Orleans, ran over the N&W from Lynchburg to Bristol, then back on the Southern to Knoxville/Chattanooga/Birmingham/New Orleans.

-- Richard E. Fisher (gladhand@erols.com), May 10, 1999.

There was never a train called the Southern. The Southerner and The Crescent were two distinct trains until combined to form the Southern Crescent prior to the advent of Amtrak.

-- Tim Willis (TIMTRK@aol.com), August 05, 1999.

In the early 40s, the Southern Railway took delevery of around six EMD E-6 locomotives. There was a news release and photograph of one of them in a paint sheme that had the units painted imitation aluminum with a green strip around the front and down the sides, about six inches wide and about a foot above the bottom of the carbody. The side area around the vents, windshield, nose and headlight were also green. In great big letters on the side, starting at the engine room window and going forward to the illuminated number boards, was the word, "SOUTHERN". The letters started off small, then by the end of the word, were much bigger. The scheme was regected (mercifully). It was truly an awful scheme. If one were to see it for the first time, however, and not know much Southern Railway specifics, it would be very logical to assume that the name of the train was indeed, SOUTHERN. There is a photo of the scheme applied to an E-6 in "Southern Railway Handbook", by Aubrey Wiley and Conley Wallace. The only trains to have the word southern in their names were the "Southerner", and the "Southern Crescent".

-- Charles C. Cake (c.cake@worldnet.att.net), December 16, 1999.

Charles and others--the publicity photo you mention is reproduced among the E-unit photos in the Photo Gallery here. According to Wiley and Wallace this paint scheme was developed by the Southern publicity department not EMC. There is also a scan of the paint scheme that the EMC art department proposed which is truely ugly. Obviously Southern liked the pattern and substituted their own green and aluminum colors.

-- Larry Puckett (ljpuckett@msn.com), December 16, 1999.

I traveled on "The Southerner" six or seven times, as a child, with my mother during the '40's. It was a through train from Pennsylvania Station in New York City to New Orleans. We took it as far as Greenville, South Carolina. Only once do I remember having to change trains in Washington, D.C.

It had silver sided aluminum cars, and the ride was "as smooth as silk." The overhead lights dimmed to a deep purple to facilitate night traveling.

My last trip was from Greenville, South Carolina to New York City in 1949.

-- Rodger Minyard (roger_minyard@nyc.impiric.com), January 31, 2001.



I traveled on "The Southerner" five or six times, as a child, with my mother during the '40's. It was a through train from Pennsylvania Station in New York City to New Orleans. We took it as far as Greenville, South Carolina. Only once do I remember having to change trains in Washington, D.C.

It had silver sided aluminum cars, and the ride was "as smooth as silk." The overhead lights dimmed to a deep purple to facilitate night traveling.

My last trip was from Greenville, South Carolina to New York City in 1949.

-- Rodger Minyard (roger_minyard@nyc.impiric.com), January 31, 2001.


I have a picture of my great grandfather in front of the "Southern". He wrote on the back of the picture. Exhibitian trip of the "Southerner" "Show trip of "Southerner": trip New Orleans to Washington. Stop 1 hour at salisburry in 1941 for visitors and free trip up Danvil Division for visitors. Yingling rode engine up to High Point guiding visitors up left lane to view the engine and back right lane out of engine to silver stream line coaches. speed up to 80 miles per hour at times. Superintend Carroll Ashby with speedometor in rear of obeserver car calling enginer stalling down at times or excessive speed." the engine number in the picture is 2800. My grandfather worked his whole life with the Southern Railroad. I do not know much about the Southern but I remember as a child hearing about this trip. He was in charge of taking care of the executives on this trip.

-- John Yingling (Johnk75@paulbunyan.net), August 31, 2001.

As far as I know it was always the Southerner. I have a number of photos taken on that "Maiden Voyage". One with then VPO Harry de Butts. Another with Eastern Lines General Manager George Adams, Genreal Supt Coley Blackwell, Washington Division Superintendent John Moon, Trainmaster Louis King, my father then Supterintendent Danville Division. There are several othern in the pictures I do not know.

Carroll Ashby

-- Carroll W. Ashby, Jr. (camari3@bellsouth.net), January 13, 2003.


I agree with earlier answers on this qustion. SR operated two trains, "The Crescent Ltd." & "The Southerner." I always boarded in Spartanburg, S.C. and the trains operated, New Orleans/Atlanta/Washington/New York. When Amtrak took over, as far as I know, Amtrak dumped the "Southerner" but kept the "Crescent Ltd." renaming it just "Crescent." It now operates as Amtrak train #19 southbound and #20 northbound.

-- Jesse Norman Jr (jesnorm@yahoo.com), December 12, 2003.

There was never a train called The Southern.That was purely the railroad name.

What happened is that there were two streamlners, the Southerner, NY- WAs-ATL-BHM-NOL and the Crescent NY-WAS-ATL-Mont-Mobile-NOL.The Southerner had coaches all the way but pullmans only as far as BHM. The Crescent had pullmans all the way but not coaches.

The two trains were losing money. Instead of dropping one outright and keeping the other, the railroad very cleverly merged them together as one train, a train which had both coaches all the way and pullmans all the way. It used the Crescent schedule, s.b., the Southerner's schedule n.b. It used the Southerner's route via BHM as there was still service via the Piedmont Limited(which,incidentally was the Crescent's secondary train, not the Pelican.(which went via Knoxville and Chattanooga)

This happened in 1970. It became known then as the Southern Crescent. This was meant to be a double name, a name which would remind passengers of EACH of the former trains. THat advertising ploy did not succeed....people thought it was about "southern pride" or something and forgot all about the Southerner.

In 1979 Amtrak took over, dropped the name "Southern" so it became simply the Crescent. The original Crescent, 1926 was heavyweight and was called the Crescent Limited, the Southerner began 1941 as a streamliner. The original Crescent had been streamlined in 1949.

-- bill haithcoat (bhaithcoat@ajc.com), May 26, 2004.



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