Start again here. This should drastically reduce download time.

-Lynn

-- Lynn Fuston (go3daudio@aol.com), March 22, 1998

Answers

"Sematics and such..."Loss of energy"...everything is energy, Ken, and there are no exceptions...remember e=mc squared?"

Ummm, I think so! I guess I'm uncertain if every time that I don't forgive someone results in a loss of energy. It seems like the gnawing feeling where it eats away at you and you harbor ill will towards someone would be more of an instance where you would experience a "loss of energy". I dunno, though. Perhaps the ones that I am not conscious of needing to forgive is something akin to a really slow leak in a large swimming pool -- there's a little loss of energy there, but I don't actually realize it!

"The fact that matter doesn't cease to exist; it only changes form? Quantum physics? Sure ya do!!!! ;) "grace account"...don't tell me that you haven't had coincidences where your life was saved ( if only I hadn't changed planes!I'd be on the next *plane* LOL) or changed by grace...that you haven't said to yourself, thank god x-y-z didn't happen or I'd have lost everything, or thank god the surgeon was GREAT, because I can still walk, etc. How about something stupid like getting away with something you know to be borderline in your own ethical code for the sake of convenience ( tax fibbing might apply)...the grace account exists in a big way! If you'd don't think so, tell me that if you ever overdraw the dang thang, honey! ;D Ya know what we think is all about us anyway...;) Kisses, Boo!!! ;*"

Perhaps this "grace account" is similar to some sort of karmic retribution? But is it possible to completely withdraw one's account? Or is it something that has unplumbed depths? Perhaps there is no limit to how low we can sink? If there *is* a "grace account", what happens when we are completely withdrawn? Do we spontaneously combust? Were Spinal Tap's drummers overdrawn on their "grace account"?

I'm not a terribly religious person, although I try and be a spiritual one. Well, most of the time. I'm definitely no choir boy! I do find myself drawn to certain aspects of Buddhism, Taoism, and Ba'hai, although I don't know very much about the latter, and hardly claim to be an expert about any of 'em! I believe that one of the more profound quotes that I've heard is by a Tibetan saint/poet named Milarepa: "My religion is not to be ashamed of myself when I die."

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), March 23, 1998.

Thanks, Jay! I got the Cherokee and have been driving around with it all weekend. No longer do I have to drive my 405 Freeway Target Practice car. So far, very good. The car is in beautiful shape, and it's great for cruising around. I haven't had an American car in a while, so I forget about the two-key thing sometimes. I go to turn on the lights and the windshield wiper goes off instead. Stuff like that! And why can't I open the back tailgate from the inside? And what's with that backseat not folding down easily? But all in all, I really like the car a lot, although the handling is a little sloppy around the corners. I'm going to swap the Jeep's old tires with the relatively new tires from my Montero, and possibly do the same to the stereo system. Montero to a Cherokee -- I've gone from a giant cube to a rectangle!

The woman that I purchased the Jeep from was super nice, although she said, "You're such a nice young man. It's hard to believe you're a rock musician!" Curiously, I never told her I was a rock musician. I just mentioned that I play music. She then went on to say that she thought rock musicians had a really bad reputation. Later, I said, "So I take it you're not a connoisseur of rock music?" She said, "Oh, well, I still like Mick Jagger and Keith Richards." Hmmmm...talk about bad reputations! But she was a super-nice lady.

Yesterday, I drove back from Long Beach again. When I reached the northbound portion of the 405 fwy. where my other car stopped in the second lane of the fwy., I found that I had subconsciously switched over to the slow lane of the freeway! I guess I was a little more perturbed about that incident than I thought, which was extremely terrifying at the time.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), March 23, 1998.

Anyone else see "Primary Colors"?

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), March 23, 1998.

No, I don't seem to have a life anymore! So what did you think about it? Quiet here -- was everyone watching the Oscars or sumpin'?

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), March 24, 1998.

Ken...Brill! Absolutely a slow leak in a swimming pool! You are obviously a Zen Master to grasp the concept so quickly! Pass Go, and collect two hundred even more fantastic insights!!! ;) Yes, the grace account does eventually play itself out...think of it this way...you have a higher self and purpose; a reason you are walking the Earthwalk at this moment in time. It's not about ego's choices or any stuff like that...it's a higher version of your beingness. Now, say, the Universe ( God, Your Higher Self, etc.) wants to get your attention, usually Guidance ( your own team of *helpers*, angels, spiritfolk, ancestors, whatever) pops into your life in the form of events. Maybe something isn't working in your life in a big way, but you don't wanna deal with it, you don't wanna go there, because you know instinctively yer gonna have to let go of some old ways of being (of thinking, looking at things, negative feelings about people or events in your present or past, etc.)to get over yourself, so to speak. First, the Universe sends a whisper in the wind...are you listening? Then, if you aren't moved to move, the Universe talks louder; maybe so loud you plug up yer ears!! Still ignoring the unpleasant situation? Now the Universe whips out the Celestial Jackhammer! LOL! Maybe it goes from a whisper in the wind, to a rock in your shoe, to a piano dropping on your head from a 5th story window! LOL! Spontaneous combustion is among the realm of possibilities! (hehehehe) Kisses, Boo! ;*

-- Mz.Heathens (Heathens@aol.com), March 24, 1998.

I haven't seen Primary Colors (yet) but I did see Wag The Dog. I saw the day it was released and there was a decent turn out but the theatere wasn't even close to full. After the Monika Luenski (sp?) incident hit the press, you couldn't get in to see it! Great film and it's definatley possible that that kind of sceniaro could happen. And it's worth it just to see Willie Nelson.

-- JaY Kahrs (BrownSnd14@aol.com), March 24, 1998.

I cleaned up a year's worth of CDs Saturday. Stumbled on this 4 CD set of the best of Virgin America's history. Listening to Youssou N'Dour and Peter Gabriel doing "Shakin' The Tree". I LOVE this track!! And loved hearing T'Pau too. Now I have it on CD!! Recently, NOTHING'S been happening around here. I stopped going to Santa Fe, then a big 0. But today the phone rang a bit. And went hiking in the rain. Like being in New Hampshire, great! As for the Oscars... A decent show, but hard to get excited since "Titanic" won all the awards. But it WAS great to see Kim Basinger's shock at winning. And loved Billy's political joke at the end... But the TV highlight last night was finally watching Larry Sanders. JUST INCREDIBLE!! The show is now better than ever. Eerily like real life. If you don't have HBO, you're missing out on the best television now.

As for "Primary Colors". A bit too preachy for me. And I'm burned on Travolta. But VERY well made. A good change from the crap. Anyone see "Wild Things"? That seems to be the hot picture now...

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), March 25, 1998.

I saw a little bit of the Oscars while doing homework. I caught Kim Basinger and Robin William's reactions -- really seemed genuinely moved by winning. Very cool. "Shakin' The Tree" is a pretty cool track. I have several Youssou N'Dour CDs, and liked his vocal work on "In Your Eyes" as well. I've been really hooked on Cesaria Evora's last two albums. This woman is simply incredible. I mentioned my CD Purchasing Extravaganza on a previous post in the Lefsetz folder, so I don't need to repeat that...unfortunately, the receiver is at the shop, so I haven't been able to listen to them in this room, and the other room that has a CD player is the studio, so I am always doing work in there, and not so much listening recreationally -- certainly not in the last few months due to my schedule!

And am I a Zen master? No, still a student of the world. Gonna go get some shuteye now...

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), March 25, 1998.

I saw Primary Colors. It ws good, not great. It was very cartoonish--that is, things happen that could not happen in real life, IMO, such as the visit with the teacher--the last part of the visit, infront of everyone. I don't buy it.

Good acting, great acting from Billy Bob, but the whole thing was so topical, I felt like I was watching a TV movie. I know, it was made last year. But I still felt kind of bored.

Doug Robinson

-- Doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), March 25, 1998.

Anyone catch Harlan Ellison on "P.I."? I was never a fan of his books, but I've come to love him on this show. He's educated on the issues, vociferously speaks his mind and is a liberal Democrat to boot!!

You should have seen the rain Tuesday night. As hard as I've EVER seen it come down. Only seen it that hard a couple of times in the mountains. Actually scary.

And do you think the Arkansas shootings are a cause for gun control, or do you think it's Hollywood influences? (I stole this one from "P.I.". Give me your reading.

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), March 26, 1998.

The Arkansas shootings are not directley from Hollywood. It's more of a cause for gun control. On 2020 or Dateline (I have no idea, I don't usually catch those types of shows) they had the grandfather on with home movies of one the kids (the 11 y/o) at age 6 opening his new shotgun on christmas morning. But that still wouldn't explain the lack of value in human life which they showed. Anyway, I wnet out delivering Pizza's for the first time last night, what an experience!!! I show up for work and they ask me if I cna drive their truck which is a stick. My sister taught me how to drive a stick in about a 1/2 hour 2 1/2 years ago. As long as they didn't smell the burned clutch at when they left (which was after I left) they sould take me back. But I made $35 in tips in 4 hours on a Wensday night, not too bad, so now my girlfriend is calling me Pie Guy...

-- PIE GUY (BrownSnd14@aol.com), March 26, 1998.

Did Maher actually have the nerve to ask that question?? What movie/TV/book did anything like that happen? Is it Dan Rather's fault? No, it has everything to do with the widespread availability of guns in this land of ours, especially as you move south and west. Mix that with the impulse of youth and you have that recipe fr disaster thats going on entirely too frequently.

-- Alec Pappas (Alechockey@aol.com), March 26, 1998.

I thought "The Big Lebowski" was pretty good!

I tend not to like these dudes' pictures. A friend explained it as they're "cold".

But Jeff Bridges warmed this one up.

I give it a thumb kinda up.

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), March 27, 1998.

All right. That's it. I can't stand it anymore.

Who decided that Bill Clinton should make the "1998 Apology Tour of Africa"??? Every day on the radio i hear aobut a new thing he's apologizing for. He's over there saying "We should've done this," and "We should've done that," and "We should've helped more on education," and we should've helped more on Apartheid, and if we had done something else, then maybe all of Africa would be a better place.

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy to help and I think it's great that we're starting now. But I just think it is too sick and co-dependent to go over there apologizing and accepting blame for so many things we had nothing to do with. I guess he couldn't get the support to pull off the "National Apology" that he wanted here in the states, so he decided to go over there and do it. Grrrrrrrr. It really gripes me.

-Lynn Fuston

-- Lynn Fuston (go3daudio@mindspring.com), March 27, 1998.

man--I drove to Plam Springs and back over the last few days (caught some of that incredible weather too, Bob), and listended to two OUTSTANDING books on tape.

Both were out and out surpirses to me, as I thought I would hate them (Glenda got them, not me.)

First was...shudder...a book by dominique Dunn about the Simpson trial. Talk about a subject i wasn't interested in!! But trust me--this is the up-close look at both the defense and the prosecution strategies and tactics which breathe new life into the events. Dunn uses an ingenious device to avoid being sued by everyone he unmasks--it is written as a piece of fiction, though all of the characters are real except his. His reading is devastatingly funny and sad, as his personal story gets interwoven into the book quite a bit. Excellent. It's called "Another city, Not my Own."

the second is called "The ANgel Of Darkness." It's the second book featuring a turn of the century (the last turn, not this one) team of crimesolvers, including the world's first forensic psychiatrist (then called an alienist), NY's first jewish detectives, a street punk, a newspaper reporter, a hand servant, and Teddy Roosevelt (in a small way). It is brilliantly read by Caleb Orr, I think. yikes, what a listen. Baby-snatching on the verge of the war with Spain.

-- Doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), March 31, 1998.

I just got the new Seely album, "Seconds", yesterday, and have been driving around listening to it. Pretty good so far! I can see why it has been getting all those rave reviews! It's a little like Stereolab in some respects, slightly lounge-like, with fun single-note portamento lines from a Moog, male/female vocals with long, drawn-out phrases, elliptical bass lines, and some fun, sprightly, and often jazz-like drumming pushing it all along.

I've also been listening to Mogwai "Young Team", which is probably the best rock album I've heard in years. I have a review of this up on my website in case you are interested: http://www.theeleventhhour.com/elevenshadows and then click on "Reviews" or "Music Reviews" or something like that.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), March 31, 1998.

If I die before I wake, life will be a piece of cake, But if I live until I die, life will be a piece of pie.

-- Tom Cahoon (analogtc@aol.com), April 01, 1998.

Ooops. "Angel of Darkness" was written by Caleb Carr, and read by Boyd Pierce. Just terrific.

-- Doug Robinson (Jazzooo@aol.com), April 01, 1998.

>Who decided that Bill Clinton should make the "1998 Apology Tour of Africa"??? Every day on the radio i hear aobut a new thing he's apologizing for. He's over there saying "We should've done this," and "We should've done that,"<

Lynn, relax man. I think Bubba feels bad about all those things he did in the Oral, oops, I ment Oval office... So because he's alreday deneid the whole Monica Lewenski thing, he can't apologize for that so he feels like he must apologize for everything that's wrong or bad in Africa to ease his guilty consience and prove to the nation that he has morals... Just a thought...

-- Jay Kahrs (BrownSnd14@aol.com), April 01, 1998.

>>Who decided that Bill Clinton should make the "1998 Apology Tour of >>Africa"??? ... I just think it is too sick and co-dependent to go >>over there apologizing and accepting blame for so many things we had >>nothing to do with.

We (the USA) had *plenty* to do with those things, and the very least we can do is acknowledge and apologize, and Clinton was right in doing so. Chief among our transgressions was an old familiar tune in the USA, turning the other cheek away from genocide. We could have and should have intervened, but didn't.

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), April 02, 1998.

Funny thing is, that none of my European friends could care less about the Clinton "scandal". Even more interesting is the fact that my friends whose parents live in Africa (one set in Ghana, one in South Africa) say that their folks find it to be a big non-issue, and that the papers report on the Jones/Lewinski news in passing, and even then with tongue-in-cheek.

I haven't been to one movie in the longest time, for some reason there's nothing compelling me to get to a theater. The one movie I would've seen, the new Burns movie, got lousy reviews.

Meanwhile, I can't believe the amazing snow season I've had this year. It'll spoil me for years to come. There's still a few months left! Bob, you gotta get your butt up there.

-- Lesley (yogachik@aol.com), April 02, 1998.

Self-correction ... I wrote: "turning the other cheek away from genocide" which is a mixed adage. What I meant, of course, is that the USA frequently "looks the other way" when it comes to genocide.

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), April 02, 1998.

This from AOL News:

Panda Passion To Be Shown Online

SAN DIEGO (AP) - Sex on the Internet has reached a new level - the private lives of pandas. Bear-all video featuring Bai Yun and Shi Shi frolicking on a steamy afternoon at the San Diego Zoo has been made available on the Internet. Not that anything has happened yet between the couple. But if it does, cameras and the world will be watching.

I have just one question. Why? Just because we have the technology?

-- Lynn Fuston (go3daudio@mindspring.com), April 03, 1998.

pardon the off topic message, but if anyone here has either recorded or engineered--or even spent some time at--Westlak Studio A, would you mind e-mailing me and giving me your impressions?

Thanks.

-- Doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), April 04, 1998.

"Just Like Paradise"

1 Here in Southern California, it never really gets cold. Kinda like a perpetual summer vacation. However, this past week has been as cold as it gets. Which is quite weird. Because usually at this time, were deep into spring. And along with this cold weather has been a plethora of rain. Grow up on the east coast, and rain is a part of the weather landscape. Comes on a regular basis. Its dreaded. Here in L.A., rains an anomaly. It NEVER rains during the summer. Rains infrequently the rest of the year. So when the wet stuff DOES come down, its an event. To be treasured. Kinda like the rain in Paul McCartneys Mamunia (you know, the opening track on side 2 of Band On The Run).

2 Ive got this fakokta back injury. And to deal with it Ive got to do all these exercises. And aerobic activity too. To get me fully in shape. About five weeks ago, I was told to go hiking again. To test my back. Id like to say Im all fine. But Im not. Some numbness came back into my foot. Ive got this weird twitch in my lower leg. When I bend forward, its like someone is gripping the nerve with tweezers. And Ive got a holy assortment of butt pain. But can I say all in all Im doing O.K? And I never break the routine. Because the original pain was so bad. Tuesday, I couldnt go out into the mountains because of the rain. Wednesday, I hit the trail. Thursday. Thursday, I should have taken a day off. To let my body recover. But I went anyway, since the WEATHERMAN said it was going to rain on Friday and Saturday. Thursday was so hectic. Got up after too little sleep to have lunch with a flaky friend who CANCELLED!! BUT IVE ALREADY SHOWERED!!! I aint going back to sleep now... So I went and got my oil changed. And then we spoke, and he told me the musicians he was supposed to have lunch with werent there, they were so FLAKY!!! I told him HE was the one who was a flake. He said lets do lunch. One half of his lunch duo arrived. I said lets cancel lunch. He said lets do lunch. The three of us. Serendipity. Were sitting there in Ocean Avenue Seafood late in the afternoon. Im doing my act. Im being myself. Shes eating it up. Add in my connection with the married woman later that evening, and HEY, I had a good day.

3 This is getting away from me. Yesterday I had too many obligations. I performed them, and tried to relax. But relaxation wouldnt come. The looker from AOL wanted to talk on the phone. So we did. But she was kinda passive. I like em to be fully alive. I got back online and an old connection was urging me to talk on the phone too. Wow, somethings changing here. But I didnt. The first time Id talked to her, she hadnt asked me word one about myself. And I never could wind down. I eventually tore myself away from cyberspace. But I got stuck on the toilet. Reading newspaper after newspaper. And then I lay on the bed and read The New York Times section on extreme sports. I vacillated. Between wanting to do this stuff and not wanting to risk my life. By time I fell asleep, it was 5:30. I woke up around 1:15. But I couldnt lift myself out of bed till 3:15.

4 I knew I had to hike. But my ankles hurt. I got the mail from the box. Which is inside my house. And then I opened the door to retrieve the packages and L.A. Times. And lo and behold, it was raining. That L.A. mist. I NO LONGER HAD TO HIKE!!! YIPPEE!! I decided Id call that third woman. The one who e-mailed me her phone number. But she wasnt home. And I certainly wasnt going to leave mine in exchange. And then the phone rang. My friend. I listened to an hour of his problems, and then he had to go. Aint that always the way. No quid pro quo. I hit the button with the red lights on the CD player. The music came back on. David Lee Roth. THIS MUST BE JUST LIKE LIVING IN PARADISE!

5 My wife was in my dream. It seemed a repeat of too many incidents in real life. Someone called her the most beautiful woman hed ever seen. The fact that she was now overweight made no difference. How the f**k was I supposed to get over her? Constantly being reminded of what Id lost. When I got this CD player, which is on the blink, she still lived here. It was April 1988. And the Sony ES came with a promotion. Send in the coupon and you get two CD3s. Remember CD3s? Both were from Warner Brothers. One contained David Lee Roths Just Like Paradise. Id slip that tiny CD into the paper/plastic adapter and let her WAIL!!!

6 There was a video to Just Like Paradise. David Lee Roth mountain climbing. Swinging across mountain faces to the music. And last night I read that Adventure Sports section. And then was skimming Roths autobiography. Which had fascinating stories, but was so poorly written. And when I woke up, I had a package from Harold. The new Knack album and the best of David Lee Roth. I put it on. Track 4 immediately. Just Like Paradise.

7 I got off the phone with _______. The front door was open. I walked out, it was still misting. I debated going up into the mountains anyway. Suddenly I felt totally alive. Totally plugged in. David Lee on the stereo. People wanting to talk to me. And Ive found it hard to write. The lack of personal impact from the AOL folder and then its DEATH!!! The end of Santa Fe. I mean everythings going in the WRONG direction! But suddenly it all didnt matter. I double-clicked on Word, shut the front door, turned the stereo up to 11, and began to WAIL!!

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), April 04, 1998.

As I mentioned to Bob already, I really enjoy his posts a great deal. I find the honesty in his posts to be quite refreshing.

Van Halen:

I actually listened to most of the album today...sadly, I was not really knocked out by it, to be perfectly honest. There's a melodicism and sense of energy that is missing from the new album, in my very humble opinion. Cherone sounds good -- actually, he sounds a lot more like Hagar than I woulda thought...

Van Halen I and II are big favorites of mine, with that snotty but fun attitude that both had, cool songs, and great guitar playing. I don't even listen to that kind of music (whatever kind of music that is...) very much, but those two albums are incredible.

The first time I heard Van Halen, I was still a little kid, hanging out at the beach with a bunch of my friends. Several big high school guys drove up in a huge, huge p/u truck, took out two enormous speakers, and blasted "Eruption" , turning everyone's head around! I had never heard guitar playing like that before.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), April 06, 1998.

1 Suddenly, during the dry cycle, I got tired. After laying the clean sheets on the bed, I checked the TV Times to see if a good movie was going to be playing on IFC or Bravo. On a channel I didnt even know I had, I found a show about hamburgers in L.A. This I had to check out. They got it right. Not only covered the Apple Pan, In-N-Out, Tommys and Fatburger, they even interviewed one of the original McDonald brothers. I was in suspended animation. Kinda like watching a film in high school. When that show ended, I set the VCR to record the half of the Paul Rodriguez special Id missed and delved into Macworld, the meatiest of the four magazines that came today. But lying on my side, my brain slowly began to race, I wasnt getting the desired effect. And I read about a bug in my hard drive that could toast it at a random moment.

2 Hello Can you hear me Am I getting through to you?

Im sitting here listening to this Billie Myers track. Oh, you can castigate it from now till Sunday but you know, ITS PRETTY GOOD! Im listening to the acoustic version from the CD Pro. And now Im verging on covering what its in the new issue of The Lefsetz Letter, ready to hit the stands on Friday. But I dont care. This song is about loneliness. And I feel lonely.

3 Today I went to the physical therapist. To address the krinkle in my leg. The twitch. Hed fired my ass. Told me it was over. I hadnt been for three weeks. But hed said to make this appointment. And he was totally friendly. Until I reminded him of this pain for a third time. The first time was when the session began. The second was when he stopped working on that side. The third was as the session was drawing to a close. He lost it. And hes a big guy. And the sessions tone turned from friendly and great to lame. And I tried to analyze this. What was really going on. First, had what Id done been so bad. Really not. I mean if you go to the doctor and youve got a pain theyre not addressing youre supposed to speak up, right? But about twenty minutes later, I realized that wasnt it. Had something to do with my Dad. Hed be calm and then youd say or do something, and hed completely lose it. Reach across the table and hit you. Maybe stomp up and down with his voice in hysterics. Its freaky and creepy just to write it down now.

4 Ive been off-kilter for about two weeks now. Its got to do with a few things. One I aint gonna tell you. Another is the fact thats nothing going on. A third is that my shrinks going on vacation. And I thought I was doing so much better. How did I end up here? Lackadaisical. Occasionally peaking and freaking. And I dont know who to blame. And I know youre going to say to blame myself. And I shouldnt even have to address this. Why do I worry about you. Could I say I lost my optimism? Its hard for me to believe things are gonna work out? Because I had so many losses. And I didnt generate them.

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), April 08, 1998.

Just read in the AOL obits that Cozy Powell died in a car crash, and Wendy O. Williams of the Plasmatics committed suicide. Weird. In the case of Wendy does that say a little fame is actually bad for you? You peak, and then...

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), April 08, 1998.

<,Weird. In the case of Wendy does that say a little fame is actually bad for you? You peak, and then... >>

You think no one outside of show biz ever commits suicide? the correlation to a little bit of fame and taking your life is pretty weak, from my point of view. Not everyone cares that much about fame, even those who get a glimpse of it.

-- Doug Robinson (Jazzooo@aol.com), April 08, 1998.

After moving to the quiet university town of Storrs in 1991, she worked as an animal rehabilitator, the Hartford Courant reported Wednesday.

Williams had been despondent for some time, the Courant quoted Swenson (her former manager and longtime companion, Rod Swenson) as saying.

``She felt she was past her peak and found it difficult to lead a normal life,'' he said.

``This was something she had planned; it was no spur-of-the-moment thing.''

Reuters

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), April 08, 1998.

Rozz Williams of Christian Death committed suicide, just to fuel the fallacy that everything happens in three's...

I can kinda relate, Bob, including the loneliness...but hang in there. I've had a lot of people comment on how they feel like quite a lot of things out of their control keep going wrong, and I certainly have felt that way for the last couple of months, although lately, things seem to be getting a lot better. I dropped on of my classes earlier today. It'll be really cool to have a few weeks off from classes before the grind starts up again. I've had this whole week off from work as well, and it has been so good for me. I get to sleep , which I was starting to consider a luxury...I've been working on music, and I've gotten caught up on quite a lot of things that have been hanging over my head. Just gotta grab life by the throat.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), April 09, 1998.

Geez where did everyone go to? I've been busy for the last two weeks or so. Had to drop two classes because of a computer error. They switched the names from 20th cent. US History to 20th Cent. USII and it's actually the smae class!!! My advisor didn't know about the name change. I aksed the teacher on the first day of class if it was the same as HIS 245 and he said I was in the right class, go figure. Anyway I got a real job this week. I'm now a sales jerkey for Guitar Center in Springfield NJ. It's cool because the place is being built right now and the grand opening is on May 7th. How has eveybody else been?

-- Jay Kahrs (BrownSnd14@aol.com), April 18, 1998.

I dunno -- the traffic has really died down here lately, which is really a shame. I just did a mega-editing session today for a 12" split -- kinda floaty, experimental stuff, at least the edits. Just getting ready to go out to a club this evening, but figured I'd hop on-line and check the newsgroups and this board while dubbing tapes to give to someone tonight.

Things are going well here, but that's largely because I decided to take a month off from school. When I'm in school, it just simply seems to command my entire life -- no sleep, not much music, and no free time at all.

I'm playing a gig as half of Paramecial wedding (weird, slightly noisy, slightly beautiful improvisation with me playing ambient guitar swells while Mitch, the other half, is playing odd tape loops and turntable stuff through delays) on Monday at No Life Records in W. Hollywood. The band that we are playing with is Grimble Grumble -- I like them a lot!!!!! Stark, brooding indie rock with a lot of effected, floaty, delayed guitars and feedback, but really pretty and nimimal most of the time.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShadows@theeleventhhour.com), April 19, 1998.

That's "Paramecial Wedding" -- I always seem to notice all the typos just as I am pressing the "send" button -- never before...too impulsive.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), April 19, 1998.

Hello Everyone,

Thanks to all who have written to me, concerned about my family's well-being. I can tell you that God was very gracious to Nashville yesterday. By the first reports I heard this morning, well over 300 homes were destroyed, over $100 million worth of damage was done, downtown looked more like Beirut than Music City, and still no lives were lost. Thank you God. We can plant more trees and rebuild the houses.

Mary and the kids spent a very tense and anxious day, with the first thunder awaking us at 5:45 AM. The kids all came running to our bed and Mary made me get up and check the TV. From that moment on, Mary and the children spent the day glued to the TV watching for tornado warnings, except for 11 times when they went down into the basement for protection. The tornado warnings for Davidson county were non-stop. One would almost end and the National Weather Service would extend it. Sometimes as many as a dozen counties would have simultaneous tornado warnings. None of the local stations showed any regular programming all day long, only continuous weather updates. They didn't even break away for commercials (for 17 hours mind you-now that's serious). One of the local stations (Channel 5) lost power right as the storm reached downtown (around 3:40 pm) and was unable to get back on the air until almost 10 pm. Then, they resumed with the anchors standing in front of a remote truck. They still had no power at the station.

I had a meeting on Music Row at 11:00 AM and another downtown at the Arena at 1:00 PM. When I went downtown, the sky was still stormy but not dangerously so, or so I thought. When my meeting was over at 3:30, I headed out the front door of the Arena (at 5th and Broad) and straight to my car, about two blocks away (just 10 minutes before the tornado arrived.) By the time I got to the car and made it over to 7th Ave, I noticed that the sky to the north was VERY dark. I drove on and made it to 13th, when I noticed that the clouds were rushing down out of the sky-not whole clouds, but just pointy triangular fingers of clouds. But there was no rotation and I had never seen a tornado before, so I didn't realize yet how serious this was. That all changed within a minute.

The sky was growing darker and I had decided to hurry home. I was sitting at a red light at the head of Music Row (17th and Demonbreun), watching for the light to change. By this time the wind had picked up drastically and I realized that I wouldn't make it the 2 miles back to my house. There were leaves and twigs flying everywhere across the streets. As I sat there watching the light, the traffic signal hanging from the pole exploded. It didn't just fall, it actually exploded. The yellow fixture disintegrated into about 10 pieces and the bulbs and colored filters and rings were blowing across the street toward my car. Now I knew I could be in serious trouble. I took off as soon as the light changed and headed down 17th, but I had only gone about 200 feet when I heard what sounded like someone shooting a shotgun through the rear window of my car. As I looked over my shoulder to see what happened, I noticed a small, thin S-shaped cloud, between the two buildings to my right. I saw that the rear, quarter-window on the passenger side was shattered with a hole the size of a football in it. (Several people have asked me if I was hit by the glass, and I told them no. But the morning after, as I was getting into my car, I noticed five pieces of glass in the driver's seat and more under my feet and scattered throughout the car.) I drove as fast as possible to Quad Studios (18th and Grand) and ran inside, telling the studio manager that I needed to borrow his basement. When I got down there, there were about 15 people huddled together already down there. About half of them were musician friends of mine (John Willis, Steve Brewster, Jackie Street, Gary Primm, and others--I mention names because some of you may know them). We stayed down there for a few minutes and then headed up to take a look outside. The picnic-table umbrella from the lounge in the front of the building had blown over the building and into the parking lot of the apartment building behind the studio. Other than that, there was no apparent damage.

I hopped into my car, noting that the hole in the rear window was made by a piece of a tree limb, dead wood, no bigger than 2" around by 14" long, weighing less than a pound. It must have been travelling at an enormous rate of speed to shatter the glass. Even throwing it with all my strength I don't think I could punture the glass with it. As I got closer to home, I notice more and more debris on the streets. They were covered with leaves almost like a carpet. I was very relieved to find that the roof was still on, the trees were still standing, and that the kids and Mary were all OK. They had heard a loud buzzing while they were in the basement. "Like a giant swarm of bees," Mary said. On TV, they were already telling of the damage in downtown, with windows blown out of the skyscrapers, and several old buildings had completely lost their fronts-now just piles of brick laying on the sidewalks and covering cars. Three of the four cranes they were using to build the stadium on the other side of the river were now just scrap metal. At the Parthenon, which is walking distance from our house (maybe 1/2 a mile), many 100 year old trees were completely uprooted, one landing on a student that had to be extricated with chain saws. All in all, it was a very trying day. It was 7:30 PM before we finally had the tornado warnings lifted, and the storm coverage on TV didn't end until after midnight.

On Friday, Nashville looked and sounded like a war zone. It was a clear and sunny day, in stark contrast to Thursday. The police were everywhere, at most major intersections, many which had no lights. The sounds of ambulances and chain saws were continuous. There were helicopters and light planes flying low over the city, some containing the Mayor, the Governor, or the Vice President.

The boys and I went to Mike Sturm's house (Mary's brother), and surveyed the damage there. Mike had been in his truck, pulling away from his house, when he spotted the tornado. He pulled back in the driveway, jumped out of the truck (not even taking the time to turn off the engine), and ran into his house. He ran downstairs and grabbed an upholstered recliner and turned it over on top of him, just before he heard the loud roar and felt the pressure building in the house. The next thing he knew the metal top of his gas grill came flying through the sliding glass door just 10 feet away. When the tornado had passed and he ventured outside, he discovered three 8' sections of his privacy fence were across the street, half of the limbs from his trees were snapped off and hanging from the power lines, and about 10% of his roof was gone.

Then last night we went to another friend's house and worked for several hours hauling limbs and patching his roof, before the next rain came.

So it has been quite an exciting few days. But thankfully, we came through it without any damage to the family or house. God was very gracious to us. Lynn Fuston Nashville Tornado Survivor

-- Lynn Fuston (go3daudio@mindspring.com), April 19, 1998.

Thank you for sharing your story, Lynn. Thankfully you and your family are all ok.

-- (yogachik@aol.com), April 20, 1998.

"My Birthday"

1 Im sitting here in my house at a quarter to twelve listening to Tori Amos Pretty Good Year. And that it was. I didnt have sex. But I felt my power. Didnt start off too strong. Back pain got progressively worse. But then I saw that doctor that prescribed physical therapy. Kate opened the bookstore. I met ____. She was married too, but somehow it gave me hope. That feeling. Just a look from afar. I could tell.

2 Ive been scarily catatonic today. Couldnt sleep, couldnt really watch TV. The phone calls made me feel somewhat connected. Listening to Robert musing about buying a new car. He wont make a move without my advice. Makes me feel pretty good. Stephen keeps calling. Even though I dont call anymore. This reminded me it was Eileens birthday. I gave her a ring.

3 I have a birthday ritual. It started in 1977. At the advent of the relationship with F. We attended our Evidence class. Then drove out to the Valley for lunch at Arts. A pastrami sandwich. And then into Westwood to see the Woody Allen movie that opened that same day. Annie Hall. And then back to Fs apartment. She gave me a present of a plant. It lasted four years. Until I had it repotted. Just after we stopped living together. Then it died. I dont know whether it was specifically that same day we went to C. C. Browns for hot fudge sundaes. But it became part of the routine. Now, every birthday, I go out to the movies. I eat a pastrami sandwich. I have a hot fudge sundae. I think it was 1992 I went to see that movie about the trip to Alaska made by one of the thirtysomething guys. There was an Airstream. A riff from a Bruce Hornsby record. I was one of only six or so people in the theatre. I can still remember sitting in that Cinewreck theatre on the Third Street Promenade.

4 I went out for my pastrami sandwich early this year. I got in my car for the drive to the Marina. I had trouble getting it into first gear. Yesterday I thought the problem went away. But now its haunting me today. Some girl on AOL wants me to have a picture scanned. I told her Ive got no picture. She told me to have one taken and have it scanned. I said I could do this. But if I was going to do this, I should also get a divorce, clean the bathroom and move. And probably deal with my car too. Its so overwhelming.

5 The sky high pastrami was curiously satisfying. I left there for Borders. I wanted to buy the Don Simpson book. Since Kate didnt have one in her bookstore. I needed it right away. As a reward. I could justify it. It was going to be my birthday. I sat in an overstuffed chair and read that article on Elizabeth Wurtzel Eileend told me about. I wondered if Id f**ked it up. She used to call me. Wanted to take me to a party and show me off when I went to visit her at The New Yorker. Im so busy being true to myself, Im nowhere. I bought a Bob Dylan CD for Robert. Since tomorrow its his birthday too. I thought how Bob Dylan didnt play the game either. Then again, the legend never squares with reality. Like those kids cliff-diving in Australia imitating the commercial. Only problem was that commercial was done on a computer. It had never happened.

6 Theres a new Tori Amos album. I havent gotten it yet. Theres a slew of new albums I havent gotten. Seem to have fallen off the mailing lists. Id like to say I care. But really, I dont. All seems so meaningless to me now.

7 I spent ten days in Aspen. It was half great. The days I skied with Jim and Lori. Those runs on the bottom half of Ajax. Down Aztec and the 1A liftline. And that one blizzardo day at Snowmass. When my feet werent scrunched in my boots. Blitzing down the carpet under the Coney Glade lift at the end of the day. Jacket frozen to my chin. Like I was in college in Vermont. But I wasnt. Im not. Lori had a baby. They watch a lot of TV on the dish. I felt like a fifth wheel. It took me till Wednesday to bring this up. They denied it. Can I be close to anyone? For fear that the closeness will end.

8 I did a solid for Kate. I know she appreciates it. Makes me feel warm inside. My sisters gonna get a divorce. Makes me feel bad. Shes so aggressive. Dumps what doesnt feel right. I sit here moving slowly, sometimes paralyzed. Shes tortured by her identity. But am I the loser in the end.

9 Maybe a bright sandy beach is gonna bring you back

And the phone rang. It was the Chipster. He said he didnt know anyone else up at this hour. He was driving back from San Francisco. And the contact put me in a better mood. But amazingly, contrary to experience, I can slip right back into this an hour later.

10 Im gonna go to the shrink. See Michael Moores new movie. Or maybe The Spanish Prisoner. And then out to dinner. Oh yeah, I got a call from Robert earlier. He got a phone call today. His old girlfriend was murdered. I get overwhelmed. I try to get up again.

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), April 22, 1998.

I'm glad to hear that your family is okay, Lynn. Hey, Bob!

Things are going really well here. I had been in kinduva major funk -- really overwhelmed by everything -- but I took off school for a month and really feel a lot better.

The gig went really well. We went over really well with the crowd. I invited the guitarist from Grimble Grumble to improvise with us, which he agreed to right away -- started making friends with the rest of the band members as well, who were very, very nice. If you know your Pink Floyd history, you may know that Grimble Grumble is the name of the gnome in one of their very early Sid Barrett-era albums.

I've also found a little bit of time to work on my own music, which is always quite rewarding...working on some scratchy and dirty electronic ambient pieces. Also, I may be working with a classically trained soprano vocalist on Komitas compositions later on.

That's all for now -- just thought I'd add my own two cents.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShadows@theeleventhhour.com), April 23, 1998.

Anyone here anymore, or should we just give up? Bothering to check but not posting, or not even checking? (YES, I know if you're not checking you're not going to respond...) Had a lot of interesting experiences recently. Especially at the L.A. Book Festival. Great panel with Christopher Hitches of "Vanity Fair", Paul Krassner, Larry Reinhart (wrote "Wag The Dog") and Arianna Huffington. On political satire. They were all sharp and hilarious.

Cyberspace has changed. Everyone's on and it's only about inforomation not a sense of community. On AOL, they're excising almost all content. Just leaving chat and the web. 1995 was the cyberspace summer of love. Now it's the aftermath.

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), April 28, 1998.

I'm here, just crunching on a new project--the same new project I began last year in May! It's my jazz CD, and it's kicking! or killing, or one of those dramatic terms.

Anyway, I hope we don't abandon ship here. It's just a valley.

-- Doug Robinson (Jazzooo@aol.com), April 29, 1998.

I wonder how Craig is doing with his new web-site?

I miss the humor and diversity of the old SSS board. Although I'm very grateful tha Lynn has kept the SS momentum going, the web based experience is not as immediate, colder in a way than the folder based Aol.

Also, I subscribe to a number of ListServ's such as Daw-Mac. Not a whole lot of friendlies there and some can be quite dry, business only places. Sheeesh.

-- Robert Frank (RndmAxess@aol.com), April 29, 1998.

...i lost the address to this site....anybody left here? bob, when was your birthday? celebrated mine on monday...... a stubborn moody taurus.....

so who thinks danger lurks just around the corner with viagra? frat boys take "viagra/ecstacy" combo while slipping "roofies" to unsuspecting girls.... = date rape/gang bang overload

-vd king

-- vd king (vdking@aol.com), April 30, 1998.

Today's Question:

When you start up Windows 95, by default it makes a distinctive musical sound. That short piece of music was created by a well known musician. Who was it?

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), April 30, 1998.

I rarely read this board because it's too darn slow and a pain in the neck to read. I like the efficiency of a folder type board, one where you follow the messages which come up one at a time. I think the fact that it's too difficult to find where the last one is that you read last, and to find the beginning of the latest message is what keeps me from coming here. It is nice, though, to see the old faces when I *do* visit.

I went to the House of Blues last night to see Les Paul and friends (which consisted of Slash, Stephen Stills, Dave Edmunds, Skunk Baxter, Steve Vye (sp?), Mike Finnegan, Slim Jim and Les's regular trio. I got to have dinner with the musicians beforehand, and sat with Les for some time. He's a real character and had me in stitches all night from his jokes (mostly off color). Quite a feisty guy. What an amazing show, truly memorable experience. Steve Vai (sp?), in particular, blew me away.

-- (yogachik@aol.com), April 30, 1998.

Sounds like a great night Lesley. As for Steve Vai, great technique but not a greast sense of melody and a lousy writer. Just listen to the early David Lee Roth solo as proof. Of the great technicians I like Eric Johnson best, and occasionally Joe Satriani hits. Usually only with his ballads though...

Meanwhile, did you know that long time ago Les Paul was in a car accident and had his arm set permanently at an angle so he could play the guitar?

So tell us one of his off-color jokes...

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), May 01, 1998.

The composer for the Windows 95 start-up music is none other than Brian Eno!

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 02, 1998.

I liked some of the stuff that Steve Vai was doing on the first DLR solo album, but not any of the subsequent ones. He sounded good at NAMM, though, as did Satriani. I just saw Allan Holdsworth at the Baked Potato last weekend. Good show, but Charlie (manager?) was a complete prick to me and others. That guy has a serious attitude problem. However, in the end, I shall remember Holdsworth's performance, which was quite good. He played with Gary Husband on drums, who is also quite good.

Most of the time, I go to some of the smaller clubs around here, such as Spaceland, PCH Club, Alligator Lounge, Hollywood Moguls, some of the in-stores at the late No Life Records, and other places. Usually local bands, although not always. However, once in a while, it's fun to go see a superb technician at work. How someone like Holdsworth switches from one complex chord to another complex chord at the other end of the neck so quickly is just beyond me.

Went to the Getty Center today for the second time. Fantastic view...

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 02, 1998.

I am recording a stunning Armenian classical vocalist tomorrow, if all goes well. She has studied opera at the Moscow Conservatory for eight years, and is quite gifted at singing Komitas compositions. Kewwwwwl!

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 02, 1998.

Speaking of superb technician, I had the opportunity back in 1979 to sit in (for two days) on a live recording with Al Dimeola. Talk about technician!!! I couldn't believe my eyes. His fingers moved faster than my brain does. It was an amazing experience.

Lynn Fuston

-- Lynn Fuston (go3daudio@mindspring.com), May 02, 1998.

About that windows Start Up tune: I was going to guess Philip Glass (of course, it would have to be an excerpt from a more extended piece called Windows95555555555555555555555555555555.

Ken, was Dave Cartpenter on bass with Holdsworth? How did you like him? I just spent a day in the studio with Dave C and drummer Scott Amendola (Charlie Hunter, TJ Kirk) for my new CD.

Doug

-- Doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), May 02, 1998.

I've seen Al DiMeola with Return to Forever in '82, I think it was. Maybe '83. The whole band played mindbogglingly fast. And yeah, that was Dave Carpenter playing with Allan Holdsworth. He had a good, warm tone, and seemed to play really well. I guess I was really focusing in on Gary Husband and Allan's playing, to be honest, so I didn't notice Dave Carpenter's playing as much, but he was in the pocket and had a really good tone. He was playing a six-string bass, and was playing chords while Holdsworth was soloing, which is always handy. I've seen Stuart Hamm do that with Satriani before...

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 03, 1998.

I don't know if any of you have ever been to The Encounter in Los Angeles (LAX)...I just went there last night, and the place is really interesting and fun! It lhas a Space Age Bachelor pad/lounge/Jetsons motif. Saw Charlotte's Bionic Blimp play there last night -- sortuva B-52s kitsch thing, really fun if not terribly original. They were the first band to play there, as it's been primarily a nightclub/restaurant with DJs previously. Taking this locale, with its already futuristic exterior, and pushing it over the top with the lava lamps, Jetsons furniture, lounge martini glasses, and other such things really makes it fun.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 03, 1998.

Steve Vai, wow that's a tough one... I used to think he was great untill I saw him at G3 last year and that's when I realized that he's a great tech. but a lousy improviser. Eric Johnson really stole the show. Stu Hamm is good, but he's a lousy tone. Bass is supposed to have bass not be rolled off from 250hz down. Holdsworth is amazing (never seen him live), but you've gotta check out Charlie Hunter. He plays an 8 string guitar/bass. He palys bass with hias middle finger and thumb and plays guitar lines at the same time with the rest of his fingers. I saw him a few weeks ago in NYC and walked out wanting to sell all my stuff and sell life insurance. If you don't have any of his albums get Natty Dread which is a cover of Bob Marley's Natty Dread. It was cut live with Hunter, two saxes, and drums. I highley recommend him to anyone wanting to hear "how's he do that" kind of stuff.

In the meantime i've been really busy between school, Guitar Center and recording I don't have any time for myself, I haven't seen SportsCenter or the X-files in alomst a week! The band that I have in this weekend is happy with the way things sound but weren't happy when I told them that the clock was running while they ate lunch and dinner which amounted to about an hour for two days. They told me they wanted to track 6 six songs and they ended up doing seven. Now instead of taking 25 hours it'll be 30 and the singer never told the other guys they only had 25. I told them to look at the invoice, oh well

-- Jay Kahrs (BrownSnd14@aol.com), May 04, 1998.

Just started school again after taking a month off. Should be able to do well in this class without killing myself, I think. I have to cut out early from class at least one evening because I have Garbage tickets. Look, we *all* have our priorities! Hmmmm....do I want to see the guy lecture about behavior management or see Shirley Manson singing? Geee... Another night, I should be able to jet over to Spaceland to see Oval in time, so I guess I'll just stick it out and stay for the full class time! See what a serious student I am?

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 06, 1998.

Anyone catch tonight's "Dateline" with the 25 year update on the Uruguayan rugby team from "Alive"?

-- (lefsetz@aol.com), May 06, 1998.

No. And I missed "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" last night as well...had a good swim today, though.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 07, 1998.

Bob, did you leave completely? Hope not.

Man, I've just discovered Ally McBeal. I hated it for months, but the last few weeks really got me. Last week's show was fascinating. Has everyone stopped liking this show by now?

Deep Impact=Deep Disappointment. Good premise, some sharp writing and acting, ridiculous human relationship crap, some huge holes--and not all of them are in the Earth's surface after impact.

-- Doug Robinson (Jazzooo@aol.com), May 12, 1998.

I really dislike this forum format (sorry, Lynn), because it takes too long to download, and it's difficult to scroll to the most recent post which is inconveniently located at the bottom. I used to love to visit the conversation amongst this small group, but I think it's become too much of a hassle for everyone to read and post. Anything we can do to bring in a more convenient BBS?

I saw that Alive thing, Bob. It was fascinating.

I'll tell you what I'm hooked on these days, this show on PBS called "3,000 miles of Garden" or something like that. It's a narrated epistilary relationship between two gardeners, one in London, one in Maine. Their friendship is based on their gardening interests, but extends beyond that, it's very endearing.

I'm buying lots of new cd's lately, nothing has me too excited, though. New Amos sounds like the last album, new Garbage same. I like the Proppelerheads, though. Anyone listening to anything inspiring?

Anyone have any Viagra stories? ;)

-- (yogachik@aol.com), May 12, 1998.

>>Man, I've just discovered Ally McBeal

No offense, but I have a strict personal policy never to watch any show with the name "Ally" or "McBeal" in the title. The confluence of both names in one title is more than I can handle.

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), May 12, 1998.

I know what you mean Fred. it kept me away for months. Until recently--it's quite absurd. About 90% of it works, and when it does, it's hysterical. Peter McNichol is a wonder. We rented a book on tape read by him--"Beach Music" and he was just perfect. Best reading I'd ever heard. He had us so hypnotized that we barely realised the book had become horrible until the very end.

-- doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), May 16, 1998.

>> I really dislike this forum format (sorry, Lynn), because it takes too long to download, and it's difficult to scroll to the most recent post which is inconveniently located at the bottom. I used to love to visit the conversation amongst this small group, but I think it's become too much of a hassle for everyone to read and post. Anything we can do to bring in a more convenient BBS?<< Yogachik, I'm with you. This was just an easy short-term patch, never intended to last this long. I must admit I like still hearing from the old folks, but I usually find that I just read what everybody has to say and even if I have something to add, typically find that it's more trouble than I want to go to. (How's that for brutally honest. I know others feel the same way. Hey, you're not hurting my feelings or telling me anything I don't already know.) I am looking around for a format that allows you to read responses via email and then respond directly by hitting reply. That would be ideal for me. Then you just enter the title of the new threads and take off. I hope to find some better alternative, but must admit that it is a much lower priority to me than my paying job. But rest assured that your sentiments and frustration are shared and noted, and that I am on the hunt. Because I don't want to lose touch with the community we once had.

Lynn

-- Lynn Fuston (go3daudio@mindspring.com), May 17, 1998.

I have to agree about this format being kinda a pain. however, I also agree with Lynn that the people that were (and are) a part of this community seem to be of a much better breed than most on the net.

I know that when I see a letter in my mailbox with a subject/topic, or person that I recognize from here, I anticipate reading it much more than, say, a letter from daw-mac. Definitely more than another get rich quick spam, or a porn site ad! (Doesn't that make you all feel good! You score higher than porn spam! At least as far as I'm concerned!)

I just know that 90% of the time, it will be something I am interested in reading, and at the very least not as stuffed-shirt as some other pro audio stuff I get mail from. (Daw-mac anyone?)

However, there seemed to be a search for a better web-based message board before, with this being the result... We were all just biding our time for infinite-music.com! Any word from Mr. Anderton on it's progress?

Drew

-- Andrew Mazzocchi (MeatWeasel@aol.com), May 18, 1998.

re: "Anyone listening to anything inspiring? Anyone have any Viagra stories? ;)"

i'm taking rogaine, prozac, viagra too...I look good, i feel good, i'm ready for you. -wonderdrug (better off dead)

-- vd king (vdking@aol.com), May 19, 1998.

I've been gone for a while. Really busy. But I'm still alive!!! Just a lot going on in my life, most of it being pretty good right now, fortunately!

While I agree that this is not really my favorite format for a discussion, it is a small price to pay for the sense of community. I say keep it going! Put up with the little inconvenience and share! It's not that much of a hassle in the scheme of things.

I saw Godzilla. It was okay. It didn't seem to have an original thought throughout the entire movie. The special effects were quite good, as you would expect.

Okay -- new CDs. I went to Footprints in Long Beach with my friend Margret from Austria, who has this extraordinary taste in music -- really diverse! I got Crash Worship "Asesinos" (lots of ritual drumming mixed with distorted but low-key guitar and vocals), the new Garbage album (which I still haven't listened to), Can "Ege Bamyasi", which I'm listening to while I'm typing this -- it is sooooo good!, Undark3396 by Russell Mills and a bunch of musicians (Brian Eno, Bill Laswell, Michael Brook, David Sylvian, The Edge, Robin Guthrie!!!) and is very spacey and ambient with some cool distorted beats, and "The Grassy Knoll III", which has a description similar to the previous CD, although it sounds purty different when actually listening to it.

Saw Garbage at the Palace, saw Bjork earlier tonight at the Palladium, and will see Sonic Youth/Oval (yippeee!)/Solid Eye (yippeee again!) at the Wadsworth Theatre next week. I think Sonic Youth is okay, but the first two bands are going to be amazing!!! And so it is Mainstream Rock Week for me here!!

Doing lots of recording, school work, going to gigs, more school work, and other nonsense. I'd have a *really* fun life if it weren't for all this school! My new car is running well, but I can't seem to sell the badly damaged Montero since I didn't have any body work done to it. It drives well, but I don't think that people can get past the corner damage. It does look kinda scary. And I got my income tax back...purty good, eh?

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 24, 1998.

KASHMIR, INDIA -- I have had difficulty contacting the family that I stayed with when I was staying on a houseboat on Dal Lake in Srinagar, although I will hopefully speak with them tomorrow. Since the nuclear testing last week or the week before (I forget which), I think that Kashmir has been thrown in a state of turmoil again, which is extremely detrimental to much of the famnilies there, since the economy is largely dependent on tourism there. Lately, since about 1989 or 1990, it has not really been so good for them. I have pictures of my trip to Kashmir (and Ladakh) on my web page, if you are interested. http://www.theeleventhhour.com/elevenshadows and then click on "Travels". I just put up the pictures of my trip not to long ago.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 24, 1998.

One of the CDs I heard that my friend got was "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis. I heard this a long time ago, but rediscovered it a couple of weeks ago. I recommended it to her, who immediately purchased it upon listening to it in the store. We took it home and listened to it and it was amaaaaazing. Very lyrical, and all the performances were stunning. Really beautiful. I do not possess a great deal of jazz knowledge by any stretch, but I know good stuff when I hear it, and this is *really* good.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), May 24, 1998.

Yeah, Ken, I totally agree with you (funny how that seems to happen more times than not). "Kind of Blue" is really cool, and is a highly regarded release. Also check out "Bitches Brew"! And on 4AD, the Mojave 3 "Ask Me Tomorrow" CD is very cool. Gorgeous guitar sound. They used to be Slowdive, you know...

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShadows@theeleventhhour.com), May 30, 1998.

Ken,

Kind of Blue is wonderful. AND it's the tip of the iceberg. Someday, you and I will get together and talk jazz. it is a music filled with reality and mystery.

I have to say that after about 45 minutes, I hated Godzilla. Been there, done that. And I LOVE efx movies. Just didn't seem to have a heart.

I've been out of touch too--mom fell and broke her hip. 84. Bad news, but she's doing alright. Plus finishing my own album, which at times seems like a huge task and at others is a breeze. Why is that, I suppose?

I guess Bob has left us altogether for now.

-- Doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), May 30, 1998.

Wow, now Ken's talking to himself... anyway... I've been working 70+ hours a week at Guitar Center. I found another job and gave them a week's notice today. In less then a month they've had 9 people quit (I'm number 10) because of the 75 hour 6 day weeks. All my free time has been spent in the studio or sleeping. But I get to go to my first record release party on Wensday night!!! It's for a bunch of high school kids that have deep pocket book and an uncle that owns a local record store. I'm looking forward to it and I have to go and eat now, I just got in from work and have the house all to myself with nothing to do so i'm going to flip on ESPN and see what's on.

What about Phil Hartman... that's kinda scary you just never know about life do ya...

-- Jay Kahrs (BrownSnd14@aol.com), May 30, 1998.

Sorry to hear about your mom and her hip, Jazzooo. And yes, we should talk jazz some time. It is filled with reality and mystery...and the reality is that jazz is a mystery to me!

The next movie I will probably have time to see is The X-Files movie, which I'm supposed to see with a bunch of friends. The Godzilla movie left me a little cold, but I did go into it with low expectations...had to see it, though.

I am very excited about a performance that I have tomorrow -- it's the first ever performance of Eleven Shadows in direct light. First live performance, as we take a step out from the recording studio and into the halls of the Museum of Arts Downtown Los Angeles (605 W. Olympic Blvd., LA between Hope and Flower at 7:00 Sat. June 6th, just in case someone on this list happens to be walking past the Standard Oil Building tomorrow and hears noises). It's a fundraiser for Tibetan orphans and increasing awareness of the Tibetan plight at the hands of the Chinese. Should be fun! There will be Esther the vocalist, Connie the bowed acoustic bass player, and Richard the Tibetan bowls/bells player, and me on atmosophere guitar and keyboards. Wheeeee!!!!

And I assume that everyone got the email about Craig and the Infinite Music thing? Should be cool!

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 05, 1998.

And I am not talking to myself. Yes you are. No I'm not. You always argue. Is this what is referred to as egodystonic? I don't know. Yes you do.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 05, 1998.

Ken you poor lad, talking to yourself isn't bad unless you start making those little hand puppets too. Anyway if you want to get into jazz look into Charlie Hunter. Natty Dred specificly. He coverd the entire album and put a pretty big twist on it that's cool.

-- Jay Kahrs (BrownSnd14@aol.com), June 08, 1998.

The first-ever Eleven Shadows performance went really well!!! We got repeated calls to do encores, and the whole audience reaction was very warm! Yippeeeeeeee!!!

I got a pretty good "nibble" today from a record company that heard my album "Sangsara" and really likes it. Cross your fingers for me!

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 11, 1998.

ken, congrats!

Has anyone heard anything from Bob? Is anyone else kind of excited at the new loation for SSS coming up in the future?

-- doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), June 12, 1998.

10 Questions About Jazz Music

So, I guess to begin a discussion on jazz, a music that I don't even pretend to comprehend...I am reacting just as much as a fan as well as a musician in many respects while listening to jazz. There are very few jazz albums that I can put on that I can actually listen to over and over. I have no idea why this is. The ones I do like are "Kind of Blue", "A Love Supreme" and a few early Pat Metheny things, like the one with Charlie Haden and Jack DeJohnette on drums, which I think is called "Bright Size Life". I have difficulty listening to a lot of Metheny stuff after "Offramp", although I understand that his newer stuff is pretty cool again. I don't know if Allan Holdsworth is considered jazz, but sometimes I like him, if someone keeps his hands off that damn synthaxe that he used to use -- what a hideous tone! Oh, and Alice Coltrane's "Huntington Ashram Monastery" is really cool, too! And I actually have had dinner with her several times in the past, and she is very gracious and warm. But honestly, I had the Coltrane albums before I met her or Oran (her son). I also went traveling afterwards with Oran to India, and got to hear his saxophone playing all the way through India. Cool, eh?

Okay, now to the questions. The few times I have seen jazz live, these are some thoughts that run through my mind:

1. How the hell do they know when to come back in after the drum solo? I don't think I could for the life of me keep track of where the groove is during one of those drum solos!!!

2. Is it mandatory that *everyone* must take a solo on every song?

3. Sometimes it seems like the band will get a really great groove going for two or four measures, and then suddenly disrupt it by doing odd time signatures, going to a different groove, or something else...so do they have short attention spans, or am I just so used to dunderheaded rock and pop grooves that I want something that I can continually groove to?

4. Maybe I am just seeing pretty good jazz musicians, but even when I, let's say, just go to a bar for a drink with a couple of friends and some people are playing jazz, they seem to be pretty good musicians -- maybe not great, but at least fairly competent. So it makes me wonder -- is there some unsaid criteria that keeps all the beginning jazz musicians off the stage? There doesn't seem to be any sort of similar criteria for rock musicians. Basically, the criteria for rock musicians is whether or not he can borrow an amp to use for the gig and get transportation down to the club...and this isn't actually a criticism of rock, either...I largely grew up with a punk ethic, and without that ethic, we wouldn't have incredible bands like Nirvana.

5. Although I see some attitudes shifting as of late, it seems that from my admittedly very limited perspective of jazz, it is largely steeped in tradition. Is this true, and if so, why? When I talk to jazz musicians, a lot of them seem to like playing "standards" at gigs over and over and listening to many 30 year old jazz records. So do I just meet the wrong jazz people, or what? I'm not trying to be critical, but rather to gain perspective!

6. And lastly, I am wondering: are many jazz enthusiasts disdainful of pop music? If so, why? I have encountered this attitude more than a few times, and it makes me sad. I mention a group, and a couple of people who are decked out in turtlenecks and listening to jazz will wrinkle their noses or look at each other and shrug slightly...

7. Why is it that every time I hear an incredibly lyrical piano solo that makes me sit up and take note, it almost always turns out to be McCoy Tyner? And is Bruce Hornsby considered a really great jazz pianist? If not, I think he should be -- he plays with great feeling on his piano solos that I've heard!

8. Is Dixieland jazz music for schizophrenics? Is it possible to follow what sounds like 9 flugelhorn solos simultaneously?

9. I've heard what little I've heard of Charlie Parker. What are some records that you would recommend?

10. Why are jazz musicians' guitars, basses, and drum sets always so fresh looking and shiny?

Many of these questions are directed towards Jazzooo, although I welcome discussion from anyone!!!

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 12, 1998.

<<9. I've heard what little I've heard of Charlie Parker9. >>

Does this make sense, Ken? I think it does, but I'm not sure...

Off of that topic, though, I saw the Chili Peppers at the 9:30 club tonight. They were doing a practice show before the Tibetan Freedom concert. Good show (lots of assholes in the crowd, tho.)

Anyhow, one of the openers was Money Mark (I think that was his name). I was impressed. Anyone ever here this guy (and his band?) Pretty wide range of styles, but definitely had his own sound. Only one complaint. Lots of keyboards... But all of them seemed to occupy the same tonal space. It was like he had banks of keys, but wanted all of them to sound like a Fender Rhodes. It just seems to me that he should trade in all those others and go get himself a big, phat Fender...

And at the end of the show, Flea chucks his Modulus $2000 bass across the stage. I'd kill for a bass like that and he's wingin' 'em around... Why don't I have basses like that?!? I can play just as good as him!!

Heh heh heh... don't I wish...

Drew

-- Andrew Mazzocchi (MeatWeasel@aol.com), June 13, 1998.

Ken asks some excellent questions, and I intend to contribute some answers although I don't have time right now ... but will in the next several days.

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), June 13, 1998.

I have a simple "jazz" question. One of my close friends is considered on the better jazz guitarists in the area. He also plays in a wedding band that I did a demo for. It seems to me...coming from a pop-rock backround that his jazz playing includes a lot of "passing tones" which to me just seem not to fit in the key of the song. Is there a criteria for passing tones that if they only last a certain # of beats they are considered "passable" or is this guy just making mistakes. I don't feel qualified to correct him.

Thanks, John

-- John Chiara (Blindjoni@aol.com), June 13, 1998.

1.How the hell do they know when to come back in after the drum solo? You're supposed to count. Alot of musicians blow it though. That really pisses off the drummer and they bang loud in the end to cue everybody 2. Is it mandatory that *everyone* must take a solo on every song? Unfortunately this falls under the heading of democratic music. Most times a limited # of solos would be better, especially limited to x # of choruses.

3. Sometimes it seems like the band will get a really great groove going for two or four measures, and then suddenly disrupt it by doing odd time signatures, going to a different groove, or something else...so do they have short attention spans, or am I just so used to dunderheaded rock and pop grooves that I want something that I can continually groove to? Really the time is still going on in 4/4 and they're just playing off it. Grit your teeth and keep counting, it comes out right.

4. Maybe I am just seeing pretty good jazz musicians, but even when I, let's say, just go to a bar for a drink with a couple of friends and some people are playing jazz, they seem to be pretty good musicians -- maybe not great, but at least fairly competent. So it makes me wonder -- is there some unsaid criteria that keeps all the beginning jazz musicians off the stage? There doesn't seem to be any sort of similar criteria for rock musicians. Basically, the criteria for rock musicians is whether or not he can borrow an amp to use for the gig and get transportation down to the club...and this isn't actually a criticism of rock, either...I largely grew up with a punk ethic, and without that ethic, we wouldn't have incredible bands like Nirvana. One is supposed to know more than 3 chords in order to play jazz. Maybe that keeps the riffraff off the bandstand. Most jazz players don't like sharing the stage period. There is an etiquette to sitting in. You can get the cold shoulder real fast if you're not going by the (unwritten) rules.

5. Although I see some attitudes shifting as of late, it seems that from my admittedly very limited perspective of jazz, it is largely steeped in tradition. Is this true, and if so, why? When I talk to jazz musicians, a lot of them seem to like playing "standards" at gigs over and over and listening to many 30 year old jazz records. So do I just meet the wrong jazz people, or what? I'm not trying to be critical, but rather to gain perspective! This is very true. There are standards jazzers know from NY to Katmandu. Alot from the 'Real" book which was put together and passed around at Berklee College of Music in Boston. Certain towns have sub sets of the standards (substandards?) that everyone in town plays. Keep in mind that there can be oh like 2 or 3 thousand tunes called 'standards'! Everybody has a common vocabulary and they can all play together therefore. It also comes from when they became standards, when the tunes first came out. It was popular and people knew it so musicians played it. In a way, you can make a case that the process can be stifling to creativity. It's very hard to rise above the expected. 6. And lastly, I am wondering: are many jazz enthusiasts disdainful of pop music? If so, why? I have encountered this attitude more than a few times, and it makes me sad. I mention a group, and a couple of people who are decked out in turtlenecks and listening to jazz will wrinkle their noses or look at each other and shrug slightly... Most of the best jazz players do not feel this way and like many truly great, find their inspiration every where. I think the attitude comes from if it isn't technically/harmonically challenging, it ain't cool.

7. Why is it that every time I hear an incredibly lyrical piano solo that makes me sit up and take note, it almost always turns out to be McCoy Tyner? And is Bruce Hornsby considered a really great jazz pianist? If not, I think he should be -- he plays with great feeling on his piano solos that I've heard! You like McCoy's solos, great! Also check out Bill Evans, Oscar Peterson, Art Tatum, Teddy Wilson, the list goes on and on.

8. Is Dixieland jazz music for schizophrenics? Is it possible to follow what sounds like 9 flugelhorn solos simultaneously? Nah, pretty much each horn has it's own range and fills it out without - theoretically - interferring with the other guys. Just think of it as an excuse for an egotistical musician to solo all the time. 9. I've heard what little I've heard of Charlie Parker. What are some records that you would recommend? Most anything, there were a few albums made when he was strung out, also see dizzy gillespie, sonny rollns, clifford brown, lester young ............... Really, those best-of compilations by major labels are a likely bet. 10. Why are jazz musicians' guitars, basses, and drum sets always so fresh looking and shiny? Ah, do you know musicians i don't? ;-) ------------- Just my take from a guy that doesn't pretend to be a 'jazz' musician. Only an occassional jazz gig among others. Don't flame too hard. Henry Shapiro Henry Shapiro & Swing Fever PS there's a little teeny review this month in Strings magazine on my CD, 'Whatever Swings'

-- Henry Shapiro (HenryShap@aol.com), June 14, 1998.

<<9. I've heard what little I've heard of Charlie Parker9. >>

< Does this make sense, Ken? I think it does, but I'm not sure...

No, not one lick of sense. But you've seen my posts before, so you should know what to expect!

Outside of the tangled mind of Ken, it would ordinarily read, "I've LIKED what little I've heard of Charlie Parker."

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 15, 1998.

Re: Standards in jazz

> Everybody has a common vocabulary and they can all play together therefore. It also comes from when they became standards, when the tunes first came out. It was popular and people knew it so musicians played it. In a way, you can make a case that the process can be stifling to creativity. It's very hard to rise above the expected.>

That's what I seem to pick up on. Wouldn't it be a little more interesting and challenging if jazz musicians would improvise more completely? By this I mean that they don't play prescribed songs, or standards, but rather, get up on stage and simply see what happens by completely making up something on the spot? I think that really intuitive jazz musicians could be just as successful at this as their improvisational rock and experimental musician counterparts, and that this would instill a bit more creativity and challenge in the music. And I realize that there are probably a fair amount of people who are doing this already, but for some reason, I guess I just don't see it at all. But I see the same standards over and over...

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 15, 1998.

Re: Passing notes in solos

> I have a simple "jazz" question. One of my close friends is considered on the better jazz guitarists in the area. He also plays in a wedding band that I did a demo for. It seems to me...coming from a pop-rock backround that his jazz playing includes a lot of "passing tones" which to me just seem not to fit in the key of the song. >

Sometimes when we are playing music, especially improvising, me or someone else will hit what's obviously a couple of bum notes. We'll smile and say, "Oh, they're just passing notes!"

Largely, I think that a lot of it is simply how the passing notes come across. From my limited knowledge of jazz, it seems like there is perhaps a bit more flexibility in respect to the key signature than in most rock (although there's obviously plenty of exceptions!). One can seemingly get away with wandering around in the harmonic structure a bit more than your average rock guitar solo, for example (although I'm always trying to destroy that myth). One of the solos I've taken on a rock song was a really chaotic, frenzied piano solo reminiscent of the David Bowie guy (I'm blankin' on his name right now). I felt it really enhances the menacing, nervous quality of the song we were playing. Anyway, back to the passing notes -- whether those passing notes are played in good taste, and how it comes across to the audience is probably another story. Of course, the jazz musician can always say, "Well, you probably didn't *understand* what I played." Possibly so. If the solo ultimately sounds really good and feels good and enhances the song, that is what truly counts in the end.

I don't really like taking solos. The kind of music that I play, solos are often a bit out of place most of the time, and often a bit indulgent for my somewhat minimalistic tastes. However, the few times that I have taken a solo, if I hit a bum note, I'll hit it twice, just to make sure that the audience "knows" that it was completely intentional! But I absolutely refuse to take a solo at all unless I can do something that really enhances the feel of the song, is extremely lyrical and/or speaks volumes, and connects emotionally. I refuse to take a solo to simply showcase my "musicalness" or "athletic prowess" on my instrument.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 15, 1998.

>>> Everybody has a common vocabulary and they can all play together therefore. It also comes from when they became standards, when the tunes first came out. It was popular and people knew it so musicians played it. In a way, you can make a case that the process can be stifling to creativity. It's very hard to rise above the expected.>

>>That's what I seem to pick up on. Wouldn't it be a little more interesting and challenging if jazz musicians would improvise more completely? By this I mean that they don't play prescribed songs, or standards, but rather, get up on stage and simply see what happens by completely making up something on the spot? I think that really intuitive jazz musicians could be just as successful at this as their improvisational rock and experimental musician counterparts, and that this would instill a bit more creativity and challenge in the music. And I realize that there are probably a fair amount of people who are doing this already, but for some reason, I guess I just don't see it at all. But I see the same standards over and over... << This kind of thing happended in the '60's (before my time). It was 'free jazz' or 'avante garde'. By all accounts, the best, most accomplished musicians played this style the best. Most others would run out of ideas real fast and repeat themselves and never make any musical statement. I think one needs the vocabulary and some common ground before you can fly. Standards are a good training for that. Some other stuff that's at work here. 1. Audience have something recognisable they can relate. musicians too. 2. You may be missing some of the subltlties of the music since you're new to it. 3. An excuse not to rehearse. People complain about jazz more than they do something about. On the other hand, How many takes do you need to do before it's a satifactory cut? This is live folks, there are no retakes. I talked to someone who chauffered Miles Davis one time and he said he was only happy with 1 solo in 6. Theodore Sturgeon's Law says that 90% of science fiction and 90% of all else is crap. How many musical groups in general are great? I also think jazz is held to an exceptionally high standard. If you listen to recordings of masters on the radio all day long, it's tough for the local guys to hold their own. on the third hand I think it would be better if musicians would just play as you described. More beautiful new music would come out of it. I've been wanting to do something like that myself for a while. Find me a bunch of musicians who are open to it, willing to commit a little time and a venue that will let us play and maybe, gasp, pay us. I'll be there in a second. Henry Shapiro

-- Henry Shapiro (HenryShap@aol.com), June 16, 1998.

Well we have discussed Jazz...now don't kill me yet...how about Blues. This I just don't get. From a listeners vantage point it seems incredibly uninteresting to me when I hear ten songs for the first time and I know when every one is going to end. I guess Blues has "standards " too. Standard chord progressions that is. It seems that if you know the routine you don't have to know the songs. We have a local band here that every year celebrates the front man's birthday at bigger and bigger clus..last year at a 2500 seat theater!!! Until the guy hit 65 nobody ever heard of him....and this group has been playing the same songs for the past 5 years...2 to 5 times a week. I understand it's a soulfull expression kind of thing but the style seems so limiting...except of couse at 3 in the morning after a 12 pack or so.

John

-- John Chiara (Blindjoni@aol.com), June 17, 1998.

Blues

The blues stuff, such as the stuff down at the local pub or what have you, seems to be so laden with cliche as to be almost unbearable. However, I do really like a lot of the Stevie Ray Vaughn stuff, some early ZZ Top, John Lee Hooker, Muddy Waters, and probably a couple more that I cannot think of. Some of the Hendrix stuff, too. I don't know why -- to me, their music communicates quite a lot. I also don't seem to like any blues with horns in it, or really clean blues. To me, the artform needs some sort of deep feeling, almost dirty, like a menacing kind of dirty. It should not be squeaky clean, and that's unfortunately the feeling I get when I go down to a bar and there's some hokey blues band there...at that point, the bar owner should just play Spin Doctors or Candlebox CDs and save a little cash.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 17, 1998.

This kind of thing happended in the '60's (before my time). It was 'free jazz' or 'avante garde'. By all accounts, the best, most accomplished musicians played this style the best. Most others would run out of ideas real fast and repeat themselves and never make any musical statement. I think one needs the vocabulary and some common ground before you can fly. Standards are a good training for that. Some other stuff that's at work here.

Hmmm...okay, I understand that. I missed the whole "free jazz" thing, although I've heard of it. But should jazz musicians move on from these standards after a while? Or should they keep playing them for 30 years?

> 1. Audience have something recognisable they can relate. musicians too.

Do they? Or are we underestimating audiences, and musicians, for that matter?

> 2. You may be missing some of the subltlties of the music since you're new to it.

Now, I'm certain that *this* is true!!!

> 3. An excuse not to rehearse. People complain about jazz more than they do something about.

Okay, an excuse not to rehearse -- yeah, that's very true!!!! I am playing improvisational music with someone else right now largely because I don't have enough time to rehearse!!!!! It's not jazz, of course, but experimental, ethereal music with some noise elements to it, but same idea, really! I miss playing in a well-rehearsed band, though, but this is the best I can hope for in the next year until I get out of grad school.

> On the other hand, How many takes do you need to do before it's a satifactory cut? This is live folks, there are no retakes.

Oh, but that's the whole fun of it! And I love playing live. If you make a clinker note, you don't have to hear the damn thing again and again for the rest of your life (usually...). Unless someone makes tapes of your show and sends it back to you, which just happened. Fortunately, I don't hit any clinkers that time...

As far as recording is concerned, I'll do something once and leave it, or do it dozens of times, comp solos, mix and match, do funny edits, really, whatever it takes to make it sound good. Recording is a complete lie anyway, at least the way I do it. I'm not trying to document a live performance. I'm trying to create the most visceral, emotional music that I know how, and if I can enhance that either by an incredible one-take performance on my respective instrument or by comping two really great vocals together to make an even better vocal, I'll do it. Doesn't matter. This is my philosophy, and not one that I necessarily dictate to anyone else...

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 17, 1998.

Ken,

I've done a few albums with several cuts on them that were totally improvised. Usually the keyboard player leads out and the bass, drums and percussionist just follow. Sometimes it's magic, depending on the skill level and integration of the players AND the caliber of the idea. Sometimes it just doesn't work. But the guys I've done it with seem to pull it off quite often. That's probably from years of working and playing together. And their incredible musicianship.

-Lynn

-- Lynn Fuston (go3daudio@mindspring.com), June 17, 1998.

Im sitting here listening to the first James Gang album. On CD.

You know, after all this time, Ive got to say, vinyl records DO sound better than CDs. Digital aficionados can call it distortion, analog people can talk about the sampling rate, all I know is vinyl sounds warmer and more like music to me.

But CDs DONT have scratches, DONT skip and DONT warp. And I guess thats worth something.

Ive been really busy the last three days. Which is kind of an anomaly. Ive been so removed from life. The life of a writer. And Im wondering right now whether I should be writing this. To what effect? Will I think Ive accomplished something yet feel ever more removed from society...thinking that if people read it its akin to closeness/communication/connection. Ah, my dilemma.

ANYWAY, I was talking to Julie on the phone. Talk to any woman and you start to wonder if you can sleep with her. Whether you want to. Whether shell let you. It runs through your brain.

And at some point deep into it, I flipped on the TV and saw Dennis Rodman. Im a believer. Hes 37, dances to the beat of his own drum and plays PHENOMENALLY! I wanted to tape it, but I had P.I. running. And Im talking to Julie.

And by time I had her done, Dennis was done. Have I missed anything? Missing Dennis Rodman on television? Does everybody just want to be on television.

I caught some of Charles Grodin on Conan. Hes not as edgy as before. He finally stopped dyeing his hair and allowed himself to look old. Almost scary.

And then Im flipping. And I come to a LIVE version of Good Vibrations. Turns out its the Ed Sullivan Show on VH1.

And now Im hooked. They play a Byrds performance I SAW when it was on originally. Man, made me feel old. And Im sitting there wondering whether yesterdays music was really better than todays. I mean I saw Smith do Baby Its You, a track I thought was a rip-off when it was a hit but was great this time through. The woman was singing. The guy was playing the organ. It was ORGANIC, dude!

And then I remembered how even in the late sixties, so long ago, there was a war between the mainstreamers and the hip. The hip listened to things like Yer Album by the James Gang.

I got turned on to Yer Album by Stef. Or Steph. She signed her letters both ways. At first Steph, then more Stef.

She found me. On the slopes of Stratton Mountain, Vermont. And there ensued a four year adventure.

And this was the end.

Her parents had rented a place in Dorset. About six miles from Manchester, where our house was/is.

And I phoned her. And sort of wiggled my way in at my friends urging. Ronnie. Hes dead now. Its amazing, you think of these people more when theyre dead than when theyre alive. They truly haunt you.

We went upstairs. We played pool on this mini table. Which were all the rage in the sixties. I dont see them around anymore. Steph and her friend were almost ignoring us. Snickering. Thank god I had a friend there. But still, I felt SO uncomfortable.

And Yer Album was playing in the background.

I guess my favorite song IS the very first one, Take A Look Around. Joe Walsh is a guitar dude, but this track features an organ. Its bouncy, in a hip way. Inspires you to hear it. In your own private loneliness. This is the optimism of music. You hear it, sing it to yourself all day, and manage to cope.

Theres the best cover of Buffalo Springfields Bluebird.

I love Collage.

And Fred.

See the people on their way Going nowhere wasted day And its strange

Now aint THAT the sixties.

And the album ends with a cover of Jerry Ragavoys Stop.

I realize writing this I love to write. But its a solitary endeavor.

Im mixed up. And going. And stopping.

-- bob lefsetz (lefsetz@aol.com), June 18, 1998.

>> I realize writing this I love to write. But its a solitary endeavor. >>

But other people read it, so ultimately it still connects, whether they choose to respond or not. I'd be curious to know how many people read these boards.

>> Im mixed up.

So am I.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 22, 1998.

It is funny, though...I thought there'd be many more responses to the ten jazz questions than what actually occurred. Interesting. I have no money, but I picked up Jeff Buckley's "Sketches For My Sweetheart The Drunk" anyway. It's spotty, but the songs that work are soooo achingly beautiful. What a voice.

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 22, 1998.

>>It is funny, though...I thought there'd be many more responses to the >>ten jazz questions than what actually >> occurred.

Still working on mine; I want to give substantial answers. Also, I probably will post in Lefsetz #3 because this thread is getting too bloated to load.

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), June 22, 1998.

>>1. Audience have something recognisable they can relate. musicians too.

Do they? Or are we underestimating audiences, and musicians, for that matter? << Most audiences, certainly those who grew up with it, and musicians are comfortable with standards. It's an easy listening kind of thing. Not every situation is a total concert enviroment. A known tune, standard or not, gives a reference point to the listener. From there you can take them on your journey. But you need to ease them into it. After a 10 hour day at work most people don't want to be assaulted with 'sheets of sound' or some musical technique they have to think about. This does not preclude your point about original music. That can be done too. It's a harder way to go. (see previous posts re: laziness and rehearsal time, re: blues). You're also assuming most musicians have the imagination to be original. That's another topic.

-- Henry Shapiro (HenryShap@aol.com), June 22, 1998.

Ken, Henry, and everyone else--

Man, I've REALLY wanted to reply about the jazz debate, but there have been a series of family health emergencies, and I end up having less than 5 minutes to do all my internet biz at a time. Please, stay intere4sted enough to field some replies in a few days--there have been some great questions brought up, and even though Fred will cover them before I do, I still want to chime in, as jazz is my fisrt love.

Thanks,

Doug Robinson

-- Doug Robinson (jazzooo@aol.com), June 22, 1998.

>> You're also assuming most musicians have the imagination to be original. That's another topic. >>

Well, damn, Henry, that's a good point! Shoot holes in *all* my theories, why don't you?

Hey, Doug, it'll be cool to hear from you!

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 23, 1998.

I've got to weigh in with a response to Sheryl's diatribe. I've been playing and recording jazz for more than 20 years, and found the questions that Ken asked to be some of the same questions I *still* ask these days; they were pertinent and perceptive, and deserve answers (which, as I've said, I'm still working on blah, blah, blah). I never would interpret Ken's motive as seeking an education without doing the hard work.

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), June 23, 1998.

>> You're also assuming most musicians have the imagination to be original. That's another topic. >>

> Well, damn, Henry, that's a good point! Shoot holes in *all* my theories, why don't you? >

This last sentence here was supposed to have one of those things right after the question mark so no one would get the idea that I was actually angry at Henry!! However, what happened was right as I reaching over to hit the "submit" button, I stubbed my toe, and my grin vanished from my face for a moment, thus erasing the emoticon. Sorry about that!

-- Ken/Eleven Shadows (ElevenShad@aol.com), June 24, 1998.

In a message dated 6/13/98 2:31:59 AM, Ken/Eleven Shadows asks some really perceptive and pertinent questions:

>1. How the hell do they know when to come back in after the drum solo? I >don't think I could for the life of me keep track of where the groove is during >one of those drum solos!!!

Often a drummer will solo on the form of the tune just like everyone else. Learning to hear and feel the form going by without actually counting comes with experience. Good drummers will make the form clear, unless obscuring and distorting the form is the intent, in which case one must learn to listen for the end of their story, which, again, good drummers will make clear. Some drummers will approximate the pitches and rhythms of the tune as an out-head to their own solo, or at least the last four or eight bars; this can help to cue the end of their solo.

But some drummers rush like crazy or otherwise compromise the form of the tune when they solo, and not toward a musical end, either; this drummer will always be hard to follow. And a few drummers think it's cute to mess with the other players, trying to trip them up, which buys into that whole "cutting contest" mentality aspect of the jazz world that I don't personally dig. I prefer clarity and camaraderie, as I do in all communication. My favorite kind of drum solo is one that is effortless to follow yet infinitely interesting to listen to.

>2. Is it mandatory that *everyone* must take a solo on every song?

Damn good question, I've been asking it ever since I first starting listening to and playing jazz. It's the tyranny of the "democracy" of jazz at the expense of the big musical picture. Even worse, the obligatory solo order: horn, piano, bass, drums, maybe trade fours/eights. Generally, I prefer one or two soloists, possibly even soloing on different material or different sections of the composition.

Of course, there are situations, jam sessions and such, in which the tradition is entirely appropriate, in fact necessary as socio-musical lubricant.

>3. Sometimes it seems like the band will get a really great groove going for two >or four measures, and then suddenly disrupt it by doing odd time signatures, going >to a different groove, or something else...so do they have short attention spans, >or am I just so used to dunderheaded rock and pop grooves that I want something >that I can continually groove to?

There are several possible answers to this question: 1) The musicians who are constantly shifting are doing it poorly, or purely to be clever, or both. 2) The musicians who are constantly shifting are doing it extremely well, challenging the listener to hear how it *does* fit the groove. 3) There's plenty of great jazz that does just lay down a constant groove. 4) I personally find it very interesting when complex melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic ideas are floating on top of a steady bed of groove, although I also dig the shifting stuff when done well and toward a musical end.

>4. Maybe I am just seeing pretty good jazz musicians, but even when I, let's say, >just go to a bar for a drink with a couple of friends and some people are playing >jazz, they seem to be pretty good musicians -- maybe not great, but at least fairly >competent. So it makes me wonder -- is there some unsaid criteria that keeps all >the beginning jazz musicians off the stage? There doesn't seem to be any sort >of similar criteria for rock musicians. Basically, the criteria for rock musicians >is whether or not he can borrow an amp to use for the gig and get transportation >down to the club...and this isn't actually a criticism of rock, either...I largely >grew up with a punk ethic, and without that ethic, we wouldn't have incredible >bands like Nirvana.

There are several answers to this question, as well: 1) Don't kid yourself ... there are plenty of awful jazz musicians roaming the earth. 2) The rudiments of the language of jazz are more complex than those of rock (although I think it's equally difficult to "speak" each fluently). 3) Rock music, at its core, is more a Folk music, which is, above all else, an egalitarian proposition. Jazz, at least as played in the last 40 or so years, is more an Art music, which is a fairly exclusive world. (Just to be clear, I personally find art in all forms of music).

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), June 29, 1998.

Answers to Ken's questions #5-10:

>5. Although I see some attitudes shifting as of late, it seems that from my admittedly >very limited perspective of jazz, it is largely steeped in tradition. Is this >true, and if so, why? When I talk to jazz musicians, a lot of them seem to like >playing "standards" at gigs over and over and listening to many 30 year old jazz >records. So do I just meet the wrong jazz people, or what? I'm not trying >to be critical, but rather to gain perspective!

Again, several answers: 1) The habit of playing standards, and the same standards, over and over IS extremely tedious when indulged by mediocre musicians. 2) Standards are mostly wonderful gems of composition, and truly great musicians can illuminate those songs in ever fresh ways, The best current example of this as far as I'm concerned is Keith Jarrett's Standards Trio with Jack DeJohnette and Gary Peacock, especially the recent six CD set at The Blue Note; three master musicians brilliantly reinventing these wonderful tunes in their own voice, set after set after set. 3) Jazz, even though it can be notated, has been largely an oral heritage, passed down by ear through the generations, young "lions" learning from old masters. As such, tradition is important, and rightly so ... you gotta come from somewhere, even if you go way out. 4) Nevertheless, for close to 20 years now there has been a death grip on jazz evolution by a revisionist retrogressive movement that eschews any developments in jazz since the early 60s, such as the incorporation of electric instruments, elements of rock, funk, R&B, pop, free jazz, etc. These musicians are listening and adhering only to that earlier canon. 5) On the other hand, my motto is: "If it ever was good, it's still good." Era means little to me ... Bach can sound fresh (or not). A lot of those 30 year old records (and 60 year old records) are fantastic, and always worth hearing again and again.

>6. And lastly, I am wondering: are many jazz enthusiasts disdainful of pop music? > If so, why? I have encountered this attitude more than a few times, and it makes >me sad. I mention a group, and a couple of people who are decked out in turtlenecks >and listening to jazz will wrinkle their noses or look at each other and shrug >slightly...

Some jazz enthusiasts are disdainful of pop, some are not. And I find this attitude reprehensible. Their reasons are varied -- here are some: 1) They confuse complexity with quality; on the other hand, they don't hear complexity in pop when it's there. 2) They like to keep their club private; meanwhile, they wonder why jazz isn't more popular. Related to this, they confuse popularity for mediocrity, and vice versa. 3) They have short memories for the disdain some classical enthusiasts traditionally have had for jazz, and short memories for a time when jazz *was* popular music, not "Art." 4) Not subscribing to the maxim that there are only two kinds of music, good and bad, they believe jazz to be superior ... a musical manifestation of social intolerance as far as I'm concerned -- "genre-ism," if you will. 5) Class struggles ... pop, R&B, rock, etc. is for the masses, the huddled, tired, and poor, with whom they don't want to associate. 6) Pop is for sex, which is "base;" jazz is for thinking, which is "enlightened."

>7. Why is it that every time I hear an incredibly lyrical piano solo that makes >me sit up and take note, it almost always turns out to be McCoy Tyner? And is >Bruce Hornsby considered a really great jazz pianist? If not, I think he should >be -- he plays with great feeling on his piano solos that I've heard!

Especially in his early years, through his stint with Coltrane, McCoy was a lyrical player; perhaps not as much later on. But there are other pianists considerably more lyrical than he: Bill Evans and Keith Jarrett are only two among others.

Not even Bruce Hornsby would consider himself a really great jazz pianist; after all, he has heard Jarrett, Evans, Tyner, and Hancock, and he seems to have an accurate sense of self-assessment. But he is a good musician and does play and write with feeling.

>8. Is Dixieland jazz music for schizophrenics? Is it possible to follow what >sounds like 9 flugelhorn solos simultaneously?

When Dixieland is played well (try Louis Armstrong's Hot 5 and Hot 7 groups), it is improvised counterpoint, much like Bach's music, in which the harmony is described not by simultaneous vertical chords but by moving lines crossing each other in the moment. When played well, no one gets in an other's way, all the gears mesh and flow is achieved. Don't try to follow everything all together at first -- start with one instrument and follow it all the way through the piece, then another instrument, and so on. Then listen once (or twice) more and put it all together; the clarity of your perception should improve. This works for any style of music, by the way.

>9. I've [liked] what little I've heard of Charlie Parker. What are some records >that you would recommend?

Almost anything, really; you can hardly go wrong. Concert at Massey Hall, the Savoy sessions, Bird With Strings, etc.

>10. Why are jazz musicians' guitars, basses, and drum sets always so fresh looking >and shiny?

Man, you ought to get out more (insert emoticon here).

-- fred simon (frednow@aol.com), June 29, 1998.